Where to start working up a load?

[bstogsdill]

Greetings,

I have limited experience with muzzleloaders limited to a replica 44 caliber revolver kit that I purchased about 40 years ago and shot a few times but then I put it away and had not shot it for many years. At the time I picked up a flask with a fixed measure on the spout and I have always used that fffg prodex powder and that measure for the 44 caliber revolver. I never deviated from that load. I can't remember the groupings but I reckon I am gonna dig it out and see how it does on the bench. It did not use a patch. The ball was an interference fit with the cylinder.

I recently purchased a 36 caliber percussion cap pistol that I think was made in the seventies which appears to be some sort of a replica of I'm guessing of an early to mid 1800s percussion cap pistol. It is a Corsair Jager side by side.

I need to figure out what an appropriate load for it would be. I have done a lot of reloading with smokeless powder and the thought of shooting this cap a ball gun without written load data sort of has me terrified. I could not find load data on the hodgens website

Is there any literature anywhere or load data anywhere or rules of thumb to follow regarding loads using black powder substitute either pyrodex pistol powder which is what I used in my 44 caliber revolver or using triple 7 powder which I've never used however I found some at the local store so I bought it.

The pyrodex powder is the fffg which is I understand it is for 50 caliber or smaller and the triple 7 powder is FFG which I think is for 50 caliber or larger. The triple 7 powder canister has load data for calibers larger than 36 caliber.

So I'm wondering how many grains of powder should be put under the 36 caliber ball for a typical accuracy load.

The ultimate goal of course is to see how tight of a pattern I can shoot with this thing for fun, and to battle gray squirrels who decimate my bird feed and get into my attic. To me an enjoyable relaxing and fun Sunday afternoon is having iced tea, watching the grass grow and the birds feed at the feeders, and thinning out the gray squirrels who rob the feed and like to chew their way into my attic.

My immediate goal is to shoot this thing without blowing it up.

From what I gather on black powder rifles there is basically a rule of thumb where you start at a particular amount of grains of powder for your bore size and then work up to where you get an accurate load and if you get too much powder you'll strip the rifling off the ball and lose accuracy, but apparently it won't be too much powder for the gun to safely shoot.

Is it safe to find load data potentially for a 36 caliber revolver and use it in my pistol? Is it dangerous to use 36 caliber rifle data for my pistol?

Incidentally, I kind of got back into this black powder kick because I heard somebody talking about one these 12 gauge diablo double barrel shotgun pistols that use black powder and he was going on about how much fun it was and it sounded like in their case they were using some heavy loads I shooting all kinds of crazy crap out of there gun like forks and spoons even. I do not plan anything ridiculous like this for my gun, but anyway I always wanted a shotgun with hammers and I got online and found a Pedersoli 20 gauge Howdah shotgun kit at the same time I found this 36 caliber project gun so I bought both of them.

I have the owner manual for the 20 gauge so I'm not too worried about shooting it and getting it sorted out, but this 36 caliber I really don't have an idea where to start with a load.

I was watching hickok45 video review of shooting the 20 gauge howdah and if I understood him correctly, you start with a charge of powder that is equal in volume to the volume of the ball of the caliber you're shooting. And of course in the case of the shotgun if you shoot pellets instead of a single ball you just load how many pellets fit in the same volume.

So at this point I am wondering if the idea of equal volume of powder and ball is the place to start. And then of course the Millon dollar question what is the maximum load which I want to stay below?

Sorry so long winded. I'm trying to glean whatever tribal knowledge I can find as my experience is limited and I did not have any luck Google searching for owner manuals for the Corsair 36 caliber pistol.

Have a good day.

 

[ppg1949]

bstogsdill, welcome back to the hobby. A good starting place for a rifle is the same amount of grains as the caliber. i.e. a 45 cal rifle would be 45 grains. Your right about 3f and 2f for different calibers but either can be used in any caliber rifle. In my pistol and revolvers I only use 3f. I have a 45 cal pistol with six inch barrel. I use 30 grains of black or Pyrodex. But 777 is more powerful so the manufacture recommends reducing your load by 15%. Since you mentioned your 36 cal pistol using revolver 36 cal loads, that would be a good place to start as 36 cal revolver would be 15 to 20g grains of 3f. Perhaps another member will jump in the fray and add their wisdom. I hope this helps. Good luck, be safe and have fun.

 

[granth]

The rule of thumb is using the equivalent amount of powder to the caliber (i.e using 36 grains of powder for a .36 caliber gun). Triple 7 you bought is for larger calibers (.50 and above), although if you tinkered around with the load enough you probably could get some satisfactory results. If I were you, I would start the load of the Pyrodex at around 30 grains and for the Triple 7 I would go for around 20-25 grains.

 

[biliff]

Assuming your pistol is mechanically sound, you're not going to blow it up.

Goex has a "load" chart for pistols and revolvers if you want an official reference point. https://goexpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/rb-pistol-revolvers.pdf

Pistol tend to shoot better with smaller charges than a rifle. For example my .44 dueling pistols do well with 18gr FFFg Goex (percussion) or 25 gr FFFg Goex (flintlock). In a .36 I would start off around 15 grains and move up from there.

 

[SDSmlf]

I recently purchased a 36 caliber percussion cap pistol that I think was made in the seventies………
I need to figure out what an appropriate load for it would be.

No load manual data, but always told for roundball shooting with pistols or handguns about half the caliber in grains of powder was a good place to start (36 caliber divided by 2 would suggest 18 grains as a starting point in your case). Work up and down from there in small increments to find the most accurate load, although the starting load of half the caliber worked pretty good without any adjustment in most cases for me. This goes along with the rule of thumb for rifles being to start with the caliber in grains of powder. The explanation for the lighter charge with pistols is that one was wasting powder in the shorter barrel with heavier charges behind a roundball.

 

[cynthialee]

SDSmlf is on the money. for my take.

half the grains of the bullet caliber and adjust in increments of 2 grains up or down
I tend to start at 4 grains less than half caliber and work up.

 

[1950DAVE]

From HODGDON'S new Blackpowder DataManual No.1,1971.

 

[Bad Karma]

I’m not sure if I would stray far from approved 20 gauge loads in that howdah… I would probably load it on the light side due to the short barrels. Dixie Gun works probably has loads listed, possibly a manual is available for download from Pedersoli.
(Duh… just read the rest of your post) I’ve always read that the starting point for shotgun is equal measure of shot and powder. Some folks say that the tightest patterns come with lighter powder charges.

 

[bang]

Rifles start at same grains per caliber of ball.
Pistol and revolver start at half the grains per caliber ball.
I reduce by 15% for heavier conical.
.454 ball for 44 revolver except dragoon and walker. .457.
.430-.435 in pistol
.375 for 36 revolver. I find .380 provides better surface area contact in barrel.
.350-.355 in pistol.

 

[flntlokr]

Greetings,

I have limited experience with muzzleloaders limited to a replica 44 caliber revolver kit that I purchased about 40 years ago and shot a few times but then I put it away and had not shot it for many years. At the time I picked up a flask with a fixed measure on the spout and I have always used that fffg prodex powder and that measure for the 44 caliber revolver. I never deviated from that load. I can't remember the groupings but I reckon I am gonna dig it out and see how it does on the bench. It did not use a patch. The ball was an interference fit with the cylinder.

I recently purchased a 36 caliber percussion cap pistol that I think was made in the seventies which appears to be some sort of a replica of I'm guessing of an early to mid 1800s percussion cap pistol. It is a Corsair Jager side by side.

I need to figure out what an appropriate load for it would be. I have done a lot of reloading with smokeless powder and the thought of shooting this cap a ball gun without written load data sort of has me terrified. I could not find load data on the hodgens website

Is there any literature anywhere or load data anywhere or rules of thumb to follow regarding loads using black powder substitute either pyrodex pistol powder which is what I used in my 44 caliber revolver or using triple 7 powder which I've never used however I found some at the local store so I bought it.

The pyrodex powder is the fffg which is I understand it is for 50 caliber or smaller and the triple 7 powder is FFG which I think is for 50 caliber or larger. The triple 7 powder canister has load data for calibers larger than 36 caliber.

So I'm wondering how many grains of powder should be put under the 36 caliber ball for a typical accuracy load.

The ultimate goal of course is to see how tight of a pattern I can shoot with this thing for fun, and to battle gray squirrels who decimate my bird feed and get into my attic. To me an enjoyable relaxing and fun Sunday afternoon is having iced tea, watching the grass grow and the birds feed at the feeders, and thinning out the gray squirrels who rob the feed and like to chew their way into my attic.

My immediate goal is to shoot this thing without blowing it up.

From what I gather on black powder rifles there is basically a rule of thumb where you start at a particular amount of grains of powder for your bore size and then work up to where you get an accurate load and if you get too much powder you'll strip the rifling off the ball and lose accuracy, but apparently it won't be too much powder for the gun to safely shoot.

Is it safe to find load data potentially for a 36 caliber revolver and use it in my pistol? Is it dangerous to use 36 caliber rifle data for my pistol?

Incidentally, I kind of got back into this black powder kick because I heard somebody talking about one these 12 gauge diablo double barrel shotgun pistols that use black powder and he was going on about how much fun it was and it sounded like in their case they were using some heavy loads I shooting all kinds of crazy crap out of there gun like forks and spoons even. I do not plan anything ridiculous like this for my gun, but anyway I always wanted a shotgun with hammers and I got online and found a Pedersoli 20 gauge Howdah shotgun kit at the same time I found this 36 caliber project gun so I bought both of them.

I have the owner manual for the 20 gauge so I'm not too worried about shooting it and getting it sorted out, but this 36 caliber I really don't have an idea where to start with a load.

I was watching hickok45 video review of shooting the 20 gauge howdah and if I understood him correctly, you start with a charge of powder that is equal in volume to the volume of the ball of the caliber you're shooting. And of course in the case of the shotgun if you shoot pellets instead of a single ball you just load how many pellets fit in the same volume.

So at this point I am wondering if the idea of equal volume of powder and ball is the place to start. And then of course the Millon dollar question what is the maximum load which I want to stay below?

Sorry so long winded. I'm trying to glean whatever tribal knowledge I can find as my experience is limited and I did not have any luck Google searching for owner manuals for the Corsair 36 caliber pistol.

Have a good day.

I have a .36 Ethan Allen sxs pistol. I use 15 gr. fffg. .350 ball. Certainly should be safe in your gun. You could probably double that and still be ok. If it's an old gun, be sure to get a competant inspection done before you shoot it.

 

[flntlokr]

Greetings,

I have limited experience with muzzleloaders limited to a replica 44 caliber revolver kit that I purchased about 40 years ago and shot a few times but then I put it away and had not shot it for many years. At the time I picked up a flask with a fixed measure on the spout and I have always used that fffg prodex powder and that measure for the 44 caliber revolver. I never deviated from that load. I can't remember the groupings but I reckon I am gonna dig it out and see how it does on the bench. It did not use a patch. The ball was an interference fit with the cylinder.

I recently purchased a 36 caliber percussion cap pistol that I think was made in the seventies which appears to be some sort of a replica of I'm guessing of an early to mid 1800s percussion cap pistol. It is a Corsair Jager side by side.

I need to figure out what an appropriate load for it would be. I have done a lot of reloading with smokeless powder and the thought of shooting this cap a ball gun without written load data sort of has me terrified. I could not find load data on the hodgens website

Is there any literature anywhere or load data anywhere or rules of thumb to follow regarding loads using black powder substitute either pyrodex pistol powder which is what I used in my 44 caliber revolver or using triple 7 powder which I've never used however I found some at the local store so I bought it.

The pyrodex powder is the fffg which is I understand it is for 50 caliber or smaller and the triple 7 powder is FFG which I think is for 50 caliber or larger. The triple 7 powder canister has load data for calibers larger than 36 caliber.

So I'm wondering how many grains of powder should be put under the 36 caliber ball for a typical accuracy load.

The ultimate goal of course is to see how tight of a pattern I can shoot with this thing for fun, and to battle gray squirrels who decimate my bird feed and get into my attic. To me an enjoyable relaxing and fun Sunday afternoon is having iced tea, watching the grass grow and the birds feed at the feeders, and thinning out the gray squirrels who rob the feed and like to chew their way into my attic.

My immediate goal is to shoot this thing without blowing it up.

From what I gather on black powder rifles there is basically a rule of thumb where you start at a particular amount of grains of powder for your bore size and then work up to where you get an accurate load and if you get too much powder you'll strip the rifling off the ball and lose accuracy, but apparently it won't be too much powder for the gun to safely shoot.

Is it safe to find load data potentially for a 36 caliber revolver and use it in my pistol? Is it dangerous to use 36 caliber rifle data for my pistol?

Incidentally, I kind of got back into this black powder kick because I heard somebody talking about one these 12 gauge diablo double barrel shotgun pistols that use black powder and he was going on about how much fun it was and it sounded like in their case they were using some heavy loads I shooting all kinds of crazy crap out of there gun like forks and spoons even. I do not plan anything ridiculous like this for my gun, but anyway I always wanted a shotgun with hammers and I got online and found a Pedersoli 20 gauge Howdah shotgun kit at the same time I found this 36 caliber project gun so I bought both of them.

I have the owner manual for the 20 gauge so I'm not too worried about shooting it and getting it sorted out, but this 36 caliber I really don't have an idea where to start with a load.

I was watching hickok45 video review of shooting the 20 gauge howdah and if I understood him correctly, you start with a charge of powder that is equal in volume to the volume of the ball of the caliber you're shooting. And of course in the case of the shotgun if you shoot pellets instead of a single ball you just load how many pellets fit in the same volume.

So at this point I am wondering if the idea of equal volume of powder and ball is the place to start. And then of course the Millon dollar question what is the maximum load which I want to stay below?

Sorry so long winded. I'm trying to glean whatever tribal knowledge I can find as my experience is limited and I did not have any luck Google searching for owner manuals for the Corsair 36 caliber pistol.

Have a good day.

I shot a ruger OA for several years. Most accurate load was about 15 grFFFg., i would suggest about 10 would be sufficient to bag squirrels. When loading short, make sure the cylinder is full with inert filler (I used corn meal) over the powder enough so that the ball loads just level with the face of the cylinder. (avoids giving the ball a lot of room to accellerate before it hits the throat). Full loads are good for showing folks lots of muzzle flash and noise, but not as great for accuracy. Have fun! Never had any use for pyrodex in a pistol.

 

[Bunk]

The rule of thumb is using the equivalent amount of powder to the caliber (i.e using 36 grains of powder for a .36 caliber gun). Triple 7 you bought is for larger calibers (.50 and above), although if you tinkered around with the load enough you probably could get some satisfactory results. If I were you, I would start the load of the Pyrodex at around 30 grains and for the Triple 7 I would go for around 20-25 grains.

grains of VOLUME not weight. The subs are lighter so be sure use a volumetric measure.

 

[Bunk]

bstogsdill, welcome back to the hobby. A good starting place for a rifle is the same amount of grains as the caliber. i.e. a 45 cal rifle would be 45 grains. Your right about 3f and 2f for different calibers but either can be used in any caliber rifle. In my pistol and revolvers I only use 3f. I have a 45 cal pistol with six inch barrel. I use 30 grains of black or Pyrodex. But 777 is more powerful so the manufacture recommends reducing your load by 15%. Since you mentioned your 36 cal pistol using revolver 36 cal loads, that would be a good place to start as 36 cal revolver would be 15 to 20g grains of 3f. Perhaps another member will jump in the fray and add their wisdom. I hope this helps. Good luck, be safe and have fun.

Grains of VOLUME not scale weight. The subs are lighter. TOW has a 50 gain measure that is great for handguns.
Good luck
Bunk

 

[smoothshooter]

Greetings,

I have limited experience with muzzleloaders limited to a replica 44 caliber revolver kit that I purchased about 40 years ago and shot a few times but then I put it away and had not shot it for many years. At the time I picked up a flask with a fixed measure on the spout and I have always used that fffg prodex powder and that measure for the 44 caliber revolver. I never deviated from that load. I can't remember the groupings but I reckon I am gonna dig it out and see how it does on the bench. It did not use a patch. The ball was an interference fit with the cylinder.

I recently purchased a 36 caliber percussion cap pistol that I think was made in the seventies which appears to be some sort of a replica of I'm guessing of an early to mid 1800s percussion cap pistol. It is a Corsair Jager side by side.

I need to figure out what an appropriate load for it would be. I have done a lot of reloading with smokeless powder and the thought of shooting this cap a ball gun without written load data sort of has me terrified. I could not find load data on the hodgens website

Is there any literature anywhere or load data anywhere or rules of thumb to follow regarding loads using black powder substitute either pyrodex pistol powder which is what I used in my 44 caliber revolver or using triple 7 powder which I've never used however I found some at the local store so I bought it.

The pyrodex powder is the fffg which is I understand it is for 50 caliber or smaller and the triple 7 powder is FFG which I think is for 50 caliber or larger. The triple 7 powder canister has load data for calibers larger than 36 caliber.

So I'm wondering how many grains of powder should be put under the 36 caliber ball for a typical accuracy load.

The ultimate goal of course is to see how tight of a pattern I can shoot with this thing for fun, and to battle gray squirrels who decimate my bird feed and get into my attic. To me an enjoyable relaxing and fun Sunday afternoon is having iced tea, watching the grass grow and the birds feed at the feeders, and thinning out the gray squirrels who rob the feed and like to chew their way into my attic.

My immediate goal is to shoot this thing without blowing it up.

From what I gather on black powder rifles there is basically a rule of thumb where you start at a particular amount of grains of powder for your bore size and then work up to where you get an accurate load and if you get too much powder you'll strip the rifling off the ball and lose accuracy, but apparently it won't be too much powder for the gun to safely shoot.

Is it safe to find load data potentially for a 36 caliber revolver and use it in my pistol? Is it dangerous to use 36 caliber rifle data for my pistol?

Incidentally, I kind of got back into this black powder kick because I heard somebody talking about one these 12 gauge diablo double barrel shotgun pistols that use black powder and he was going on about how much fun it was and it sounded like in their case they were using some heavy loads I shooting all kinds of crazy crap out of there gun like forks and spoons even. I do not plan anything ridiculous like this for my gun, but anyway I always wanted a shotgun with hammers and I got online and found a Pedersoli 20 gauge Howdah shotgun kit at the same time I found this 36 caliber project gun so I bought both of them.

I have the owner manual for the 20 gauge so I'm not too worried about shooting it and getting it sorted out, but this 36 caliber I really don't have an idea where to start with a load.

I was watching hickok45 video review of shooting the 20 gauge howdah and if I understood him correctly, you start with a charge of powder that is equal in volume to the volume of the ball of the caliber you're shooting. And of course in the case of the shotgun if you shoot pellets instead of a single ball you just load how many pellets fit in the same volume.

So at this point I am wondering if the idea of equal volume of powder and ball is the place to start. And then of course the Millon dollar question what is the maximum load which I want to stay below?

Sorry so long winded. I'm trying to glean whatever tribal knowledge I can find as my experience is limited and I did not have any luck Google searching for owner manuals for the Corsair 36 caliber pistol.

Have a good day.

In a long gun, start with 1 grain per caliber. Work up 5 grains at a time to about 80 grains ( or less ), then work on a load that is under 40 to 45 grains. I would not go below 25 grains or so.
In other words, you want a heavier load ( not a 100 grainer ), and then a half-charge load for playing around, informal target practice, and small game hunting, if you do that. With the scarcity and price of powder nowadays, you will appreciate getting more shots per pound.

 

[Grenadier1758]

In a revolver, your powder charge is limited by the size of the cylinder. I would start at 15 to 18 grains of 3fg equivalent volume of powder and work up 2 grains until the ball is slightly compressing the powder. @smoothshooter is providing good advice for a rile load, but a bit much for a revolver.

 

[smoothshooter]

In a revolver, your powder charge is limited by the size of the cylinder. I would start at 15 to 18 grains of 3fg equivalent volume of powder and work up 2 grains until the ball is slightly compressing the powder. @smoothshooter is providing good advice for a rile load, but a bit much for a revolver.

I did specify that my advice was for long guns.
In revolvers, I start with maximum loads and work my way down. I usually end up using max loads or close to it in revolvers. I still get good accuracy with just about any load.
And I quit putting grease in the chamber mouths years ago.
Makes a huge mess and does nothing ti prevent chain-fires.
I use 1/8” home-made and lubed felt wads under the ball with excellent results.
These can be round, square, or even triangle shaped and still work fine.