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Deerstalker, you must be looking at the old red can from the 1970s ... OK, maybe 1980s ... i have one of those lying about - Goex FFFg at about $5.75 a pound ... if you can do better than $25 a pound nowadays, go for it- that's a good bargain!

I have to go about forty minutes one way to buy the stuff, so when i do, i bring a big wad of dead presidents
 
REALLY?? Only if you order 1lb at the time. Get with a local NMLRA club and pitch in with them when they order. Price will drop to about $25/lb very quickly and further if you order more in standard grades.
Great idea ..unfortunately my nearest club is 225 miles a trip ..hence the substitute powders locally bought for $28.99/lb just seems like win win
Hopefully the OP has a club nearby so he at least has reasonable options
Bear
 
$3 a pound is what I first paid, lead from a scrap metal dealer at $.25 a pound. I had a real bargain. A nickel a shot compared to $.17 for the 30-30 I owned at the time.
Picked up 2 pounds for forty from Fireman when I met him up at Arrowrock. He had bought a case and was selling it off.
 
Deer Creek Products price right now is $23.00 per pound on Goex and $17.00 by the case. If I needed more right now I would buy a case.
 
Get friends into black powder. Buy it by the case and split it up. More people shooting muzzleloaders more muzzleloading friends, win win.
 
Schuetzen is a few $ less/# than Goex at MPH, and free shipping on a case lot.
 
Deerstalker, you must be looking at the old red can from the 1970s ... OK, maybe 1980s ... i have one of those lying about - Goex FFFg at about $5.75 a pound ... if you can do better than $25 a pound nowadays, go for it- that's a good bargain!

I have to go about forty minutes one way to buy the stuff, so when i do, i bring a big wad of dead presidents
I haven't bought commercial powder in 50 years. To easy to make my own
 
I’ll most likely go with Goex OE. Seems to be moderately priced and more available than Swiss. From what I’ve read the performance is roughly the same between the two. Being new to the real thing I doubt I’d know the difference anyway.
I
I’ll most likely go with Goex OE. Seems to be moderately priced and more available than Swiss. From what I’ve read the performance is roughly the same between the two. Being new to the real thing I doubt I’d know the difference anyway.
I have been shooting black powder for just over 50 years, and am happy with FF or FFF Goex. Tried other brands, and and don't see that much difference except in price. Some guns may prefer one or the other F sizes, but if I could only get 3F, well I would still be happy. Just get out a have a good time.
 
Hello everyone. New member here with a simple question for you. I’ve been shooting ML’s of various types for years, but have never tried real black powder. Now I’m thinking I might give it a go, so with a 50 cal. rifle should I be thinking 3f for powder?
I use 50 grains of 3f Goex in both my .50 & .54 rifles, it shoots great. I also us it to prime the .54 flinter.
 
I’ve continued looking at real black powder, but as Brokenbear mentions it’s starting to look like it’s pretty expensive stuff. Best price I’ve found is still about $50 per pound once it’s all said and done.

I recently paid $30 a lb and walked out of the shop feeling moderately *****
Seems I owe them an apology.
 
Yeah, so do I. Some folks claim to get more. There is no set number of shots you can get from a flint.
 
You'll find that real BP shooting is just as complex and involved as modern smokeless... You have to consider "burn rate" (rate of conversion to gas, BP is a low grade explosive in all granulations (technically the primary active component in Pyrodex (Potassium Perchlorate, combined with BP) and 777 (Dinitrotoluene) are too (although those two really are semi-smokeless powders), meaning it turns to gas incredibly quickly, compared to most solids and liquids, yet not as fast or completely as high explosives (ex: Trinitrotoluene (TNT)) and how the diameter of the charge vs the length of charge vs granulation of the powder affects that. This means that gun powders like BP only generate intense pressure for a brief moment, and then decrease in pressure until the bullet has completely exits the bore. We know from scientific study that the rate of combustion reactions exponentially increases, as the pressure increases, so long as there is adequate oxygen to oxidize the substance. If powder on a plate goes "poof" in the open air... imagine what happens when you confine it and it reaches pressures 1360 (20,000 psi)-2721 (40,000psi) times the pressure of our atmosphere (ATM)! Fortunately, BP is not nearly as erratic under pressure as modern semi-smokeless and smokeless powders are.

You need to consider your projectile, and it's inertia (which determine the pressures you are creating, BP is capable of incredibly high pressures, given the proper conditions). You have to think about your barrel length, and giving the powder distance (time) to convert to gas, and still give the projectile time to make use of the pressure in the bore to accelerate. True BP is 100% water soluble, and is very easy to clean, which is good, since only about 55-65% of it's mass converts to gas, so there is a lot of soot left (and smoke, don't forget the smoke :thumb: ). The goal should always be to balance your gun, projectile, and charge in such a way so as to achieve as close to that 65% as possible (sometimes, however, to get just a bit more performance (flatter trajectory, more energy, ect.), we have to accept a reduction in efficiency). Different companies have slightly different formulations of BP, just like there are different formulations of smokeless today, so you have to decide on what works best for you/your wallet/your gun and projectile. More efficient powders will produce more velocity and pressure for their weight, and will result in less fouling.

All in all, considering the charge dimensions, and the inertia of a .490-.495 Lead Ball, 3F is a great all around choice, which is why it is the most commonly recommended granulation today (technically, 4F can be used in .50, but only in fairly light charges (I'm going to guesstimate, 30gr in modern guns not specifically proofed for 4F) as the fineness of the powder allows it to convert to gas more efficiently than even 3F, and the charge will be even shorter in length, which will also increase the rate of conversion, and therefore, pressure). about 40 years ago, many people recommended 2F, but in looking through older articles and such, I can't seem to find an exact reason anyone points to as to why that is.

The general rule of thumb for firearms is for larger bores (wider, shorter charges) (ex: .32 vs .50 vs. .72) and heavier projectiles (more inertia), you normally will want a slower converting powder, in order to keep the pressures manageable (ex: a 100gr charge with 172gr .490 ball vs the same weight of charge with a .490 694gr wadcutter (generally want a slower powder with that heavy of a bullet)). With smaller bores and lighter projectiles, you can make better use of faster powders (like 4F in a .32 with a ball or light bullet vs 3F in a .50 with a ball or light bullet vs 2f in a .50 with a heavy bullet).

As always, make sure your gun is proofed for what you want to do with it, even if that means you proof the barrel yourself (DO NOT PROOF IN THE STOCK!!! a 2x4, caliper, notepad, baling wire (wrapped in tape to protect the finish), cannon fuse, and a backstop makes a cheap and effective proofing setup (just get behind something). With hazmat being required for all gun powders today, I just stick with real BP, it's easy to clean, easy to work with, gives me all the performance I need... and how else can I get the wife to complain about the smell when I clean guns after shooting lol 🖖!
 
I love REAL black powder! 3F will work just fine in a .50! As others have said, it’s corrosive so make sure you clean it immediately after. I’ve found that taking the barrel off the stock and cleaning with hot soap and water works great. Stick the nipple end in a bucket and use the jag and patch to suck the soapy water up and down the barrel. Make sure you dry it well! Hot water helps it dry quickly.
 
7000 grains per pound divided by 70 grains per shot equals 100 shots. 50 grains per shot equals 140 shots.
7000 grains is the weight of a pound, black powder is measured by volume (some measure by weight). Just keep this in mind. You’d have to weigh your given charge and then see how many of those you get in a pound. If this makes sense….
 
7000 grains is the weight of a pound, black powder is measured by volume (some measure by weight). Just keep this in mind. You’d have to weigh your given charge and then see how many of those you get in a pound. If this makes sense….

Your comment prompted me to do a little checking with my powder measure and scale. I realize results will vary depending on factors like how compacted the powder is, what grain size it is and maybe even what brand it is. But just out of curiosity I weighed 3 charges from my adjustable powder measure with the measure set at 50 grains and using 3f Goex powder. The weights were 48.02, 48.84, and 47.34.

I figure that's close enough for approximation of number of shots per pound. One grain is such a small measure that I'm not surprised there was a +/- one grain variation.
 
Your comment prompted me to do a little checking with my powder measure and scale. I realize results will vary depending on factors like how compacted the powder is, what grain size it is and maybe even what brand it is. But just out of curiosity I weighed 3 charges from my adjustable powder measure with the measure set at 50 grains and using 3f Goex powder. The weights were 48.02, 48.84, and 47.34.

I figure that's close enough for approximation of number of shots per pound. One grain is such a small measure that I'm not surprised there was a +/- one grain variation.
You’re right, that is pretty close. I expected it to be more of a difference. I’d guess that the coarser powder would show more variation, again, just a guess.
 
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