I am looking to install a White Lightning touch hole liner in my Bess. Which size/thread is the best?
Which size White Lightning
- Thread starter jefair1
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White lightning liners come in only one size. They don’t make one to fit different brands of guns that already have factory liners. If your gun already has a liner you’ll have to retap it for a white lightning, if it doesn’t have a liner it will have to be drilled and tapped for a liner.
First question: Are you having any ignition problems with your Bess? Why do you want to change the touch hole to a White Lightning?
As you can see on Jim Chamber's web site on the parts page, there are three sizes of White LIghtning Touch Hole Liners.
Jim Chambers Flintlocks
The touch hole liner for a Bess would be #THL-01 and you would need the #TAP-1 tap and drill set. The White LIghtning Liner does NOT have STANDARD THREADS. The installation of a White Lightning Touch Hole Liner is not a simple remove and replace.
I would speculate that your Bess does not have a touch hole liner. That means you will have to drill the hole to tap the threads for the new liner. You will have to cot off the excess material and file the liner down to the surface of your barrel.
It does not have a liner. I was asking about size and thread. Chambers lists 3
No, it does not have a liner yet. Yes I am having ignition issues. I opened the flash hole and countersunk it slightly, which did not help much. I have a gunsmith friend who will do the drill and tapping for me. I am not much good working with metal.
Pete G
76 Cal.
Probably the 5/16". They do require a special tap.
ApprenticeBuilder
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If it were me doing this, I'd opt for the smallest liner that Chambers offers that way if in time something goes wrong with that size of liner it's a non-issue to go up to the next size liner, along that line of rational you get three tries.
I agree.
The Chambers liners come in 1/4-32, 5/16-32 and 3/8-32 thread sizes. That 32 threads per inch is a standard, UNEF or Unified National Extra Fine thread series but don't expect to find it on the shelf. Usually, you have to ask for it.
Is the size of the flash hole the same in all three sizes?
Yes
For future reference, Mcmaster Carr has 1/4-32 taps for $7.55, and just about anything else you might need... They've been my goto place for taps, motors, o-rings, bearings, etc.., for a lot of years.
Here is a 3/8"liner in a D weight, .72 barrel, pretty big. I would go with a smaller size to start with. When installing these it is best to pull your breechplug so you can cut off the excess liner protruding into the barrel. I did open the hole up to 5/64 to speed up ignition.
Thank you for the info.
Yes, the White Lightning Touch Hole Liners all have the same diameter touch hole. Typically it is smaller than 1/16" in diameter and will most likely have to be drilled out. I believe the 1/16" is a good touch hole diameter. In some cases the 5/64" diameter touch hole will provide a quicker ignition. @Eric Krewson's approach is good.
Post some pics of your current touch hole location and tell us what size you have it drilled out to now. Other than the interior coning on a white lightning you may not see a difference in performance better than your current setup. What issues are you having and what other steps have you taken to correct them?
Col. Batguano
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The difference between the sizes of liners doesn't affect the touch hole size. That will be any size you drill it to. As I recall, as they come (or are when filed flush and the hole revealed) it's about a .052" hole. I've used wire bit sizes and settled on .060" as my optimal size, but there's nothing wrong with .0625" either. The reason for the smaller TH size is that it gives me a little shorter total barrel dwell time, though, it is bit finicky when it comes to certainty of ignition.
The main difference between the sizes is the size of the cone underneath the touch hole itself, and the amount of powder within it.
You have to remember what actually happens when it comes to the whole ignition sequence;
The flint hits the frizzen and generates sparks that light the pan.
The heat builds up to a point it reaches the powder in or under the TH
That powder through the flash channel ignites the main charge in the chamber
Pressure builds and seeks the easiest escape route, which is through the TH
When that pressure builds beyond its' ability to vent through the TH, it starts the ball on its' way
All the while during the ball's journey down the bore, gas will be escaping through the TH due to the lessened resistance to escape
Once the ball leaves the bore, gas pressures in both escape routes will equalize.
So, that means the quicker I can get the ball started on its' way down the bore, the shorter will be the overall barrel dwell time. Once the powder through the TH has done its' job in lighting the main charge, it would be MOST effective if it could be instantaneously closed and limit chamber gas escape. A smaller TH doesn't do that, but it limits the overall gas escape more so than a larger one does. That's why cap guns (and cartridge guns) have so much shorter overall barrel dwell time than touch hole guns.
The main difference between the sizes is the size of the cone underneath the touch hole itself, and the amount of powder within it.
You have to remember what actually happens when it comes to the whole ignition sequence;
The flint hits the frizzen and generates sparks that light the pan.
The heat builds up to a point it reaches the powder in or under the TH
That powder through the flash channel ignites the main charge in the chamber
Pressure builds and seeks the easiest escape route, which is through the TH
When that pressure builds beyond its' ability to vent through the TH, it starts the ball on its' way
All the while during the ball's journey down the bore, gas will be escaping through the TH due to the lessened resistance to escape
Once the ball leaves the bore, gas pressures in both escape routes will equalize.
So, that means the quicker I can get the ball started on its' way down the bore, the shorter will be the overall barrel dwell time. Once the powder through the TH has done its' job in lighting the main charge, it would be MOST effective if it could be instantaneously closed and limit chamber gas escape. A smaller TH doesn't do that, but it limits the overall gas escape more so than a larger one does. That's why cap guns (and cartridge guns) have so much shorter overall barrel dwell time than touch hole guns.
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I think there is another reason to choose the 1/4" to start. Usually when you have just a drilled touch hole, it is usually positioned right in front of the breech plug face. I have one rifle this way and when I put scope down the barrel with a pin in the touch hole, I can see that the hole is literally right in front of the face. When drilling out for the liner in this situation, the drill will brush the face of the plug. IMO, you would want as LITTLE "damage" to the face of the plug as possible. The larger the liner, the bigger the drill, the more intrusion to the breech plug. I know there are differing opinions on whether that makes any difference, but it's my preference to not have exposed threads to try to keep clean of the effects of corrosion.
Another option is to move the liner just a tad forward, but that option might depend on how wide one's pan is to be sure the heat is still entering the touch hole in the liner effectively.
Another option is to move the liner just a tad forward, but that option might depend on how wide one's pan is to be sure the heat is still entering the touch hole in the liner effectively.
Col. Batguano
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I like to leave just a little metal between where the liner exits in to the bore, and where the step is for the breech plug. Somewhere around 1/32". It's not really needed for safety, but helps keep contact with the liner threads and the barrel wall all the way around, and one less place for water and fouling to collect.
When installing (and tapping) the liner it's a good idea to have that breech plug in there, because that small sliver of metal between the edge of the liner and the breech plug face step MAY want to distort itself some during the process. Having the plug in there butted up against the step will provide some measure of support.
Of course, once the liner is through the bore and protruding you will have to clean it all up with a a file (inside the bore) to prevent any snagging during cleaning. During the process, you'll damage the rifling somewhat, but that's of little consequence, because the ball / patch contact with the bore will be forward of that area anyway (except if you dry ball).
When installing (and tapping) the liner it's a good idea to have that breech plug in there, because that small sliver of metal between the edge of the liner and the breech plug face step MAY want to distort itself some during the process. Having the plug in there butted up against the step will provide some measure of support.
Of course, once the liner is through the bore and protruding you will have to clean it all up with a a file (inside the bore) to prevent any snagging during cleaning. During the process, you'll damage the rifling somewhat, but that's of little consequence, because the ball / patch contact with the bore will be forward of that area anyway (except if you dry ball).
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Pete G
76 Cal.
Bess is smoohbore.
I like to put the liner in tight but not so tight I can't easily remove it with the lug. I mark what protrudes into the barrel with a fine sharpie, remove the liner and grind the excess off on a bench grinder. I touch up any burr inside the barrel from the drill with a fine diamond hone in a Dremel and reinstall the liner to check the final fit. I remove the lug, peen the excess lug lightly into the counter sink then file the liner flush with the side flat.
Works for me;
Works for me;
