Which smoothbore for N.C.?

[Woodland Roamer]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and looking to get a smoothbore. I'm from North Carolina and I'd like to get one that would have been carried in the backwoods here from the late 1600's to the mid 1700's as that is the time period I'm really interested in. I'm really interested in Native American history and would like to get one that they would likely have carried. Maybe one of the French or English trade guns? Just wondering if any of ya'll know which type might have been used more in this area?

Alan

 

[rabjr]

Check here, Mike just might have what your lookin for.
http://www.fowlingguns.com/brookskits.html

 

[MikeC]

Mike Brooks "Carolina Gun" is what your looking for. Just received delivery of mine this past weekend. You won't be sorry.

 

[grizzly adam]

Hey, Alan ...

If you want to carry a type of arm that was often found in the hands of common men from North Carolina who mustered out to fight in the Revolution, then a plain fowling piece of the type manufactured for colonial sale by the Birmingham, England small arms trade is very appropriate.

A very good example is offered by a nice guy named Jim Chambers, a noted expert in such matters:
http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles05.htm

Longrifles were far less common in early colonial settlements than is commonly represented. Both gunsmiths and parts were in short supply, and they were far more expensive to manufacture and purchase than was the widely available fowling piece, which was the colonial equivalent of a working shotgun in that day.

Fowling pieces were much more versatile and useful to colonists ... they could be loaded with ball or shot, used on game big or small, furred or feathered, and on men too ... and were of better manufacture than most military muskets. A look at the rosters of many NC militias shows that lots of men arrived for duty carrying their personal fowlers. Another thing to remember is that very many men couldn't see well enough to effectively use a rifle. Poor eyesight was just as common then ... but glasses weren't.

I have a hand-assembled fowler like the one in the link above. It is a superb piece, and exactly like what was most often found in rural NC homes around 1760-80.

Chamber's English Fowler / Officer's Fusil is a perfect example of what many East Carolina men used in the early days of their militia service, before many arms were issued. The parts do need to be assembled and finished without engraving or carving, though, in order to represent a common gun rather than a gentleman's piece.

Jim is a Carolina boy, and is one fine gentleman who can help you find someone to assemble one of his kits, if you don't want to do it yourself ... a really top-notch guy. It was his expertise in this very area of study that led me to choose this fowler for myself ... it was his recommendation, and not just because he sells them! He's not that sort.

His kits are unexcelled, in quality and authenticity.

I share your interest in this period and it's equipment. If you like, PM me and tell me where you hail from, and I'll do likewise!

Adam

 

[tg]

You have some pretty good advice so far I would just add that the Carolina gun is probably the type most commonly used at the time you mentioned, an English Fowler of the time might have been carried by a chief I believe there are historic writings of higher grade guns given as gifts to the leaders of the tribes at times, my choice for such a persona would be the Carolina gun from Mr. Brooks.

 

[grizzly adam]

Decisions, decisions ... :wink:

When I began my quest to buy a 1760 period appropriate recreated arm, I decided to discover what sort of gun an East Carolina man from that era who was in a similar life situation as mine would have owned.

My interest was in reflecting a colonial persona somewhat equivalent to my own identity right now. Since I've been to college, own a farm, work as a salaried professional and live in a nice country house, I chose to reflect that in my purchase of a gun. I am a lifelong country boy who grew up poor and has managed to do fairly well through hard work, so an unadorned, but high quality fowler was perfectly appropriate ... for me.

The English Fowler I use, done up plain without any engraving or carving, is exactly representative of arms historically recorded as being in the hands of local landowners here in this part of extreme Coastal Carolina in the period mentioned. They were commonly imported from England for local trade with colonials looking for something beyond the cheaper guns intended for backwoodsmen and the Indian trade.

No doubt American made pieces were available and were found here too, and indeed, I think that Brook's Carolina Gun is a good representation of what a poorer settler or backwoodsman might have carried.

I can say this about Chamber's English Fowler ... it handles superbly ... it feels ALIVE in your hands and comes to battery with a snap seldom found in other recreated period fowlers I've handled. The swamped barrel, cast-off and perfectly rendered dimensions do make a difference ... so I can give it a hearty endorsement. When put together by a master gunsmith, it is a delight to use. That's true of any of Jim's kits.

Remember too that guns made up of parts from older pieces were very common too ... so there's an option.

It's really a matter of deciding who you want to be before you decide what you want to shoot!

I do wish you the very best of luck with your search and shooting. It's all a blast ... literally!

 

[Woodland Roamer]

Hey thank you to everyone for all the great info. I'll check out the links, some of those I've not seen yet. I like the looks of the Carolina gun and of course I like the name of it! It's going to take me a while to decide and save some money as well. Also haven't deciced whether I'll buy a complete gun or do a kit.

Alan

 

[Dane]

The Brooks "Carolina Gun" was actually known as a Type G trade gun. The one that Mike is offering is a superbly designed piece.

It has a VERY slender, VERY long (47 3/4") 20ga, oct/round barrel.

It is made in the tradition of the early trade guns. Sheet metal furniture, not inlet into the stock. They were made cheap for the indian trade. But even so, a very nice,sleek weapon.

I am putting together one as I post this. I'm really looking forward to seeing it finished.

 

[tg]

" I'm from North Carolina and I'd like to get one that would have been carried in the backwoods here from the late 1600's to the mid 1700's as that is the time period I'm really interested in"

The time frame is something to consider, the Carolina gun probably would fall in most anywhere the Fowler by Chambers would just catch the tail end at best, just depends on how specific
you decide to be as to the time frame, position in life, and so forth.Either gun would be top of the line with quality parts, and that is the only way they come, you would need to find someone to build either one, Mike may be taking orders, I don't know for sure, but you could be looking at a couple of years wait depending on which builder you work with.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I will throw in my vote for the Carolina gun as well for the early time frame you choose. It is a fowling piece and would have been used by the natives and was a cheap gun available to the whites. Although being a trade type gun and on the the lower end of the rung compared to fancy fowling pieces made for the landed gentry, the Carolina gun still has some export engraving on the lock, and hardware.

 

[grizzly adam]

Hey, Alan ...

Looks like Brooks has a Carolina Gun for sale:
http://www.fowlingguns.com/forsale.html

There's a Chamber's fowler below it, already sold!

 

[Leonredbeard]

TG,
for the late 1600's could he be looking at a doglock/snaphance musket? It just depends on which end of his time period he wants to portray. It is a wide period of weapons development. At the extreme early end, if he is poor enough, he might even be carrying a matchlock? Just thinking, I know, that can get me in trouble.
volatpluvia

 

[Woodland Roamer]

Thanks again everyone for all the info. I'm really liking the looks of the Carolina gun so far. I think it would fit in very well with what I'm wanting to do.

Alan

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've only seen one english fowling gun that wasn't engraved. Engraving was actually the norm, even for trade gun level fowlers.

 

[Okwaho]

The Brooks "Carolina Gun" was actually known as a Type G trade gun. The one that Mike is offering is a superbly designed piece.

It has a VERY slender, VERY long (47 3/4") 20ga, oct/round barrel.

It is made in the tradition of the early trade guns. Sheet metal furniture, not inlet into the stock. They were made cheap for the indian trade. But even so, a very nice,sleek weapon.

I am putting together one as I post this. I'm really looking forward to seeing it finished.

Dane, you have the chronology reversed here. The term Type G {along with Type H} is an archaeological term first used by T.M. Hamilton{"Colonial Frontier Guns"} in ""Early Indian Trade Guns;1625-1775"{1968}to denote archaeologically recovered materials which he believed were English.He also used the terms Type C and D to denote French material.None of these terms were used earlier than 1968 when Hamilton's first book came out.

The term Carolina Gun is first found in the estate inventory of the store of Thomas Hancock of York County,Virginia which lists 40 "Carolina Guns" valued at 22 pounds 10 shillings {Total}
York County,Wills and Inventories No.18{1732-40}PP.442-44
"The Gunsmith in Colonial Virginia" by Harold B.Gill Jr.P.14.
A second use of the term "Carolina" guns"can be found in the British Gun barrel Proof Act of 1855 still included "Carolina" guns in the small arms category:"Class 3:,Single barreled birding and fowling pieces of every description for firinf shot and those known by the names of Danish, Dutch, Carolina, and Spanish"
For this information I am indebted to Mr. Lee Burke whose article,"A Trade Gun of the 1700's" alsoappears in Hamilton's "Colonial Frontier Guns"PP.68,29.
These guns were essentially cheap English fowlers sold both to Indians and less than affluent Whites.This type gun dates to to 1699 when the British Board of Ordnance began buying them for gifting to Indians and store owners and traders also bought them for resale as seen in the inventory above of a Virginia merchant.I haven't personally seen one of Mike's guns but have seen pictures and as with Mike's other work I think you should be able to make a fine gun.
Tom Patton

 

Alan,

Mike Brooks make both a fine gun and evidently a fine kit. Two other sources for Carolina guns are Ben Coogle and Jack Brooks. I believe you can find contact for both on the Contemporary Longrifle Association web page. Those Carolinas are slick slender guns.

Sean

 

[grizzly adam]

Hey, Mike ...

Maybe you and anyone else more educated in these things than I could set me straight if I've got some wrong information about guns that were in East Carolina around 1760. I read some local history and did some research that indicated that English manufactured "fowling pieces" were common items in homes of local settlers, and that they were "plain, working guns" ... but if that info was wrong, I'd like to know ... I don't want to have the facts wrong, or pass 'em on wrong. I'm sorry if I have.

Maybe I spoke too soon in trying to help!

Please, y'all ... set me straight if I need it. I'm no expert, just an enthusiast, and I'm willing to take correction.

Jim Chambers seemed to affirm my conclusions when I talked to him, but I might not have made myself clear when explaining, or he might have misunderstood.

I just want to know what's right. Anyone who can help is welcome to correct my deficiencies!

 

[Mike Brooks]

Grizz, you were right, I was just pointing out that even the "export grade" english fowlers were still engraved. Probably not carved, but still had some engraving on the butt plate, side plate and trigger guard bow. The engraving wasn't executed as skillfully as the higher end guns, but they were engraved none the less. As you know the "Carolina guns" were engraved as well, and they were about as cheap as you could get a gun made back in those days.
The only english made fowling gun I've seen with out engraving was reeves Goehring's "11 shilling" gun that is just one step above the carolina gun in having a cast brass butt plate and trigger guard that were not engraved. This gun has the identical thumb piece ,side plate,
barrel and lock as the carolina gun, and the side plate and thumb piece on the 11 shilling gun were engraved just like the carolina gun...as was the lock if I recall correctly.

 

[rabjr]

Hey, Alan ...

Looks like Brooks has a Carolina Gun for sale:
http://www.fowlingguns.com/forsale.html

There's a Chamber's fowler below it, already sold!

Unfortunately that gun has been sold and I need to update that page before Mike yells at me lol.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Hey, Alan ...

Looks like Brooks has a Carolina Gun for sale:
http://www.fowlingguns.com/forsale.html

There's a Chamber's fowler below it, already sold!

Unfortunately that gun has been sold and I need to update that page before Mike yells at me lol.

:slap: :haha: