Why, a patch knife...?

[Rifleman1776]

Gotta agree,
I use a small knife to cut patches at the muzzle,

But I have never seen historical referance to such practice.

I feel certain that is correct.
I use a smaller knife because it is safer. I'll opin that is also why others use them.
My range patch knife doesn't have a point for additional safety.
Our predecessors back in the day didn't shoot as much as we do these days. Needs are different.
Funny how we are preserving what used to be by being different than what used to be. :shocked2: Lemme say that again........ :wink:

 

[Tumblernotch]

I have an old lightweight handforged skinning knife with a 5" blade on my strap. It's light enough for a patch knife in the field, yet strong enough for field dressing a deer. I have a short bladed knife in my range box, but lately I've been using an old straight razor for range work.

If you're going to wear a skinner on your belt, I'd say a small patch knife is all you need on the pouch, but if you don't, or think you need a spare, it's not a bad idea to have a dual purpose knife strapped on.
I won a new bag at a chunkgun shoot week before last, so I'm going have to make a sheath and a knife for it. I'll use it with the .32 I built last Fall. Since it will be used just for small game and plinking, I can get by with a small blade.

 

[shooter57]

Gotta agree,
I use a small knife to cut patches at the muzzle,

But I have never seen historical referance to such practice.

Funny how we are preserving what used to be by being different than what used to be. :shocked2: Lemme say that again........ :wink:

Agree 100%. We want to be like them only easier. They carried what they needed and could afford. the knife was usually a big one and sharpen on a rock. did not carry extra knifes for special purposes. the knife carried was used for everything from eating to killing, just wipe the blade off on their dirty greasy buckskins or grass and leaves first and it was ready for the next task.

 

[necchi]

"everything from eating to killing, just wipe the blade off on their dirty greasy buckskins or grass and leaves first and it was ready for the next task."

While I beleive your right, they carried a multi purpose single knife,,
Food poisoning killed people back then just like it does now and folks knew it.

 

[izzyjoe]

i'm making a small patch knife out of an old sawzall blade, and i'm only sharpening one side. so that the flat lays on the barrel,and it has a rouned point. my way of thinkin' is to have a knife for every job, a universal knife will be dull from universal work!

 

[nkbj]

My favorite is a bronze blade from a set of early sixties Thai cutlery. Got it out of the 50 cent bin at a Good Will store.

 

[bpollock_sr]

I use old shoe knife blades. They take a razor edge and lay flat on the muzzle.With a deer antler crown handle they make a handy and good looking knife.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I use old shoe knife blades. They take a razor edge and lay flat on the muzzle.With a deer antler crown handle they make a handy and good looking knife.

What is a shoe knife? :idunno:
Got pics? hotoSmile:

 

[Claude Mathis]

What is a shoe knife?

Not to be confused with

 

[Rat Trapper]

Buy a copy of John Juranitch's book, "The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening"- new or used. His company, The Razor Edge Company is in Ely, Minn. He has a website.

It will teach you how to properly sharpen any cutting tool. :hmm: :hatsoff:

He also includes valuable tips on how to properly use, and store edged tools to keep them sharp. Its the improper use of edged tools that dulls them so quickly.

Back in 1970, I had only been out of Vietnam almost a year and John attended an archery shoot I was at. I learned the art of getting a knife sharp and bought one of his sharping kits. Still got it and it still works.

 

[Rifleman1776]

OK. Thanks, I think.
What makes it a "shoe knife"? Why is it called that? The curious with nothing better to worry about want to know. :wink:

 

[Rev_William]

It is also known as a cobblers knife, used for various chores while putting together shoes. ( I would be an idiot with out google :rotf: )

 

[Rifleman1776]

It is also known as a cobblers knife, used for various chores while putting together shoes. ( I would be an idiot with out google :rotf: )

Does that make me an idiot with Google? :idunno: :redface:

 

[Rev_William]

Not at all I've read a number of your posts no signs of idiocy. ( i couldn't spell without spell check either :wink: )

 

[LaBonte]

While I agree with Wick that based on the available data most patching was pre-cut, there are at least a few references to cutting patches at the muzzle during the early 19th Century. Here's one from John James Audubon circa 1822

"”¦ He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a featther into the touch-hole. To a leatthern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen. He takes from his bag a bullet, pulls with his teeth the wooden stopper from his powder-horn, lays the ball in one hand, and with the other pours the powder upon it until it is just overtopped. Raising the horn to his mouth, he again closes it with the stopper, and restores it to its place. He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the "patch" over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen. The elastic hickory rod, held with both hands, smoothly pushes the ball to its bed; once, twice, thrice has it rebounded. The rifle leaps as it were into the hunters arms, the feather is drawn from the touch-hole, the powder fills the pan, which is closed. “Now I’m ready,” cries the woodsman”¦."

Note in the first bold that the SHEATH knife (note patch knife) was attached to the pouch (based on existing originals they could be attached to the back or to the strap) and there is also a strip of linen below.

There are also a couple of late 18th references to knives attached to pouches

In Squire Boone's description of his famous hand to hand fight with the Indian at the Cove Spring fight in 1777 he talked about he and the Indian grappling for a knife that was "attached to his hunting pouch" strap, and both having a tough time grabbing it as the handle was slippery with both of their blood.

There is also the Tanner Narrative where he speaks of "Appending" a knife to the strap of his shot pouch ca 1800.

IMO these knives were not specifically for cutting patches, but were rather a general purpose knife for various usages. Again based on the historical record the dedicated patch knife is apparently a 20the Century innovation or at earliest a very late 19th century one.
IMO like so-called priming horns the smaller bag knives were so named by 20th century collectors rather than by period users.
Think also in these terms as this country became more settled and game (especially larger game) became less available, you had more townies and local farmers hunting with generally smaller bores, so there was no real need for large horns or larger knives. A small day horn (or flask) and a small knife were all one really needed for hunting game such as squirrel and rabbits and for that matter even deer. Both items could be easily carried in ones pocket without having the bulk of a large horn or shooting pouch, although that latter did exist as well.
It's also my opinion, again based on the existing historical record, that this latter day hunting scenario was the most likely origin of bullet boards - they were not purpose designed as speed loaders, but rather a convenient way to carry ones patched balls that could be easily carried in ones pocket or even around ones neck. IMO all three items were originally a matter of convenience for those hunters who no longer needed a full blown hunting rig.

 

[Zonie]

In his journals, Osborne Russell makes several comments about the "butcher knife" carried by the Mountain Men but does not mention any smaller knife for cutting patch material or even small game animals.

Then, again, when listing the things carried me mentions a lot of things but I noticed that patches or even patching material was not listed.