why aren't the cabelas kentucky pc

Bingo! At least someone else around here sees the stupidity of such an argument.

 

[Coot]

PC, in todays world means period correct which is just another ways of saying historically correct. Both mean that not only the materials but the style and overall appearance are an attempt to replicate a specific period in history. It is not the Society for Creative Anachronism (a fun group that "recreates the middle ages as they should have been"). It is a widely understood term and not subject to personal whim such as with the Queen in Alice in Wonderland ("when I use a word it means whatever I want it to mean"). If someone chooses not to be PC, that is fine. Shooting muzzleloaders is a great hobby by itself. Hunting and woodcraft skills are also fine. Doing things "the old timey way" is great. But to claim to be PC - "period correct" but not HC "historically correct" is grossly misleading to newcomers and insulting to those who are tying to be PC.

 

[Rebel]

ooner, well since he can't see your or my posts it don't do much good to reply to him. But i wonder if Everyone put him on Ignore, Would that be kinda like he wasn't even here? :rotf:

 

[tg]

Is that kinda like one of those deals where if everyone ignores the tree that falls in the woods then it does not make a sound?

 

[Rebel]

Yea, same thing only different. :grin:

 

[Runner]

Gentlemen, the discussion has been interesting and I suggest that we agree to disagree on this issue. I appreciated the chance to have a polite discussion!

 

[Mike Brooks]

Bingo! At least someone else around here sees the stupidity of such an argument.

Oh , I see it, I just don't argue about it anymore. :haha:

 

[Claude Mathis]

The sad old argument about the forged barrels and hand made locks etc usually pops up in these discussions to undermine the historical or period correctness of a rifle or fowler that has been carefully crafted to appear like an original. The idea is sophomoric at best: because a hand crafted reproduction wasn't made in exactly the same way as a 200 year old original it has no more period correctness than a Spanish repro with a two piece beechwood stock that resembles nothing from the old days. There is no way to have a reasonable discussion with someone who broaches this argument as they seem to have no respect for the research and careful work that a gunmaker does to make one of these beautiful guns. You are right--PC and HC are the same--except to a hairsplitter. And perhaps a hairsplitter with PC envy is to be given a little extra latitude as he is dealing with a double handicap...???

I could have just agreed with you, but chose to quote your post, with the hope that it will be read again by others. Excellent observation.

PC envy - it does exist. :wink:

 

[wildeagle]

I for one am delighted. I'm no tenderfoot when it comes to blackpowder, but refrain from posting much, I enjoy reading what you all have to say. Some times it gets a little heated and for a while it was a little digraceful to see such attitudes. But of late I think that everyone deserves a gold star. Sometimes a tongue is not so sharp, and the atmosphere is is much more tolerant, a big hussssah for everyone :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[pennsyltucky]

not that my opinion matters, but i happen to agree with both sides.

every sport is regulated by a set of rules. playing by those rules is necessary for everyone involved to enjoy the game. this is the pc/hc sides arguement.
then there are different levels of the game. we play football at the family reunion, but we dont actually have a full 100 yards, have proper outfits, or even use the right kind of ball. but do we have as much fun as the steelers? absolutely. all are welcome and rules are a little less important than ensuring we all have a good time... without alowing an all out rule-less brawl in the grass.

different levels of regulation is what i think is being argued here. many of us prefer to be surrounded by folks who follow a stricter set of rules to be as "accurate" as possible. being as juried as possible makes it as "real" as possible. the enjoyment is in playing the highest form of the game.

others of us are less concerned about following the rule to the letter, and while we still want to strive for a "period correctness" we dont want to alienate those who dont desire to be perfect, but just have a good time playing the game

 

Good post Kenton. A big part of the problem on this thread as well as others is:

1. A guy that is playing sandbox football is snubbin' the other sand box football guys for not playing by the same rules as the Steelers.

2. In some posts he is snubbing Steelers players because they are not playing the same game he is.

Convoluted thinking? Yes it is! Good logic? Nope!!!

Or... maybe it is just a simple case of HC/PC envy!!

 

[Claude Mathis]

Good post Kenton. A big part of the problem on this thread as well as others is:

1. A guy that is playing sandbox football is snubbin' the other sand box football guys for not playing by the same rules as the Steelers.

2. In some posts he is snubbing Steelers players because they are not playing the same game he is.

Convoluted thinking? Yes it is! Good logic? Nope!!!

Or... maybe it is just a simple case of HC/PC envy!!

I also think there's a situation where some of our members don't realize that there are different "levels of commitment" to Historical Accuracy and they mistakenly think that everyone is in the "sport" is at the same level they are. This makes for discussions where people are not on the "same page" in their thinking. Nobody is wrong, they're just not communicating on the same frequency.

 

[pennsyltucky]

Nobody is wrong, they're just not communicating on the same frequency.

my thots too. just 2 different levels of the game trying to play on the same field. each side only aggitating the other...

 

[Claude Mathis]

Nobody is wrong, they're just not communicating on the same frequency.

my thots too. just 2 different levels of the game trying to play on the same field. each side only aggitating the other...

All it takes is a little courtesy from each side to make this work. The problem is, too many people think that their way is the only way. It's human nature and we live with it.

 

Nobody is wrong, they're just not communicating on the same frequency.

my thots too. just 2 different levels of the game trying to play on the same field. each side only aggitating the other...

All it takes is a little courtesy from each side to make this work. The problem is, too many people think that their way is the only way. It's human nature and we live with it.

Claude, I certainly don't see my way as the only way. I embrace the idea of any fella wanting to shoot a flintlock, caplock, underhammer, sideslapper,etc... at a target event to have the right to do so. It can even be a non HC/PC rifle/gun that is factory made... What I can not stand for is the attitude that, "anything but a flintlock is the way to go or I'm gonna pick up my toys and go home if you range officers don't get rid of those other shooters." Then you look at what this fella is shooting and it is not HC/PC in any sense of the word. That is what I am talking about, folks that are so full of themselves and their very narrow view to allow anyone else to shoot unless they have the same views they do.

Re-enactments are a different set of rules all together. Yes, you have to be PC in order to play at those events. People who get juried in to those events usually don't have a problem with a match that allows any pre-1840 ignition system or traditional rifle/gun even if it is factory made. At least I don't. But not at a juried event. I have rifles/guns that have been juried into some very stringent PC events along with my clothing and camp gear. I still shoot with all the rest of the fellas at events that are not totally PC, i.e. pre-1840 rondevous. No biggy. It's the guys who think they know history and are judgemental of others to the point of sticking a sharp stick in the eye of a fellow shooter because he is shooting a underhammer (or whatever) that PO's me. I don't think it is a matter of talking past each other anymore. I think it is a case of obstinate unacceptance of what pre-1840 rifles really were against those who have some sort of fantasy of what pre-1840 guns were no matter how much documentation has been offered here. There were a whole lot more guns out there than just flintlocks.
BTW, about 90% of my guns/rifles are flintlock. I have nothing against flintlocks. I love flintlocks. I adore period correct hand made custom built flintlocks. I do have a problem with hard headed bigots who are unteachable.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Nobody is wrong, they're just not communicating on the same frequency.

my thots too. just 2 different levels of the game trying to play on the same field. each side only aggitating the other...

All it takes is a little courtesy from each side to make this work. The problem is, too many people think that their way is the only way. It's human nature and we live with it.

Claude, I certainly don't see my way as the only way.

Before I even read the rest of your post, I must say that I wasn't addressing my comment to anyone in particluar, so there's really no need for anyone to defend their position. :v

 

:hatsoff:

 

[tg]

Let's remember that this post was origianly about the PC factor of a particular gun not if it was good or bad just whether it was considered PC which bythe response of most of the knowledgable posters it is not, yet it does have the appearance to be considered a traditinal styled gun and is likely accepted at most events unless strictly juried.

 

[rich pierce]

Well not matter how I stack it I get PC and HC as basicaly the same meaning, as any time "period" is a particular time in "history" but folks can make their own choices on this issue I think the majority would use the two interchangably....did I speak to soon about this thread being civil?

obtuse!...I like that word Russ..may use it myself sometime.

TG, I'll give it a try:
PC meaning period correct might be construed to mean a gun or other item that fits in a particular period. That gun might be Chinese or Indian or Turkish or English or French or Mexican or American.

HC means historically correct or "it was used in that place and time and historical context."


That was a stretch even for me.

Nobody can ever explain why this gun or that gun does is not "PC" or "HC" to anyone new in the hobby or anyone with a different slant, or an axe to grind. Newbies (we've all been there) normally have zero experience handling originals or guns made like originals. Pictures do not convey enough, and until one begins to really study originals, important differences can be virtually invisible. For some, just being a flintlock makes a gun PC for the years between 1650 and 1820.

Generally speaking, some smoothbore trade guns being an exception, the biggest differences between originals and mass-produced, relatively inexpensive guns could be appreciated by blind persons who had handled originals. They would think the inexpensive, mass-produced guns must be made for youths, because they are so short, the barrels are so skinny, and the locks are often so diminutive and weak that they feel like they belong on pistols. I am primarily talking about rifles here, such as "hawkins" and "mountain rifles" that weigh in at about 7 pounds with 26-30" barrels.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Okay, let's use a different term...

"Historically Period Correct". That means, it is as accurate a representation as possible, of something used during a particular time period.

Only someone who is anti-PC would argue these terms. We know what they mean. :grin: