Phil Coffins
69 Cal.
Hatchet Jack , the "14" is 14% carbon, good info but that should read .14%
12L14. The "12" is the type "Carbon Steel - Resulpherized", the "L" means lead has been added, the "14" is 14% carbonHatchet Jack , the "14" is 14% carbon, good info but that should read .14%
smol;ess burns progressively while black does not, generating far more pressureI crossed paths with a video on this forum, can’t remember where, that demonstrated what happens with smokeless powder. Scary! It blew up every ML it was loaded in! I thought it was a bit of an over charge at 150 grains, but with BP I think the barrels would have survived? Is the issue the metal ML’s are made of? Barrel Wall thickness? How can a cheap black gun pop off smokeless forever and an expensive BP barrel becomes a cautionary tale? I don’t want to shoot the stuff, just curious.
By large diameters I meant out side measurement. The ones I saw were about two inches across. I don't know what caliber they were.And some BP target rifles, like those shot by Fleener, David Minshall, me and a few others - Idaho Louis for instance - shoot comparatively small-bore bullets [yes, that's what they were originally called] of around .45cal, but with charges around 90gr or more. But remember that we are also shooting out to 1200 yards.
By large diameters I meant out side measurement. The ones I saw were about two inches across. I don't know what caliber they were.
Truly excellent post. Thank you.The reason one never shoots smokeless in BP guns is 2 fold.
1. Burn rate...
Two main reasons .One is that smokeless powders build a lot more psi than black powder. Smokeless detonates while black powder burns.Two, when people use smokeless they way over charge the gun. For example my twelve gauge ml uses 75 grain FF, while I reload my modern 12 gauge with 18 grain red dot.!
Absolutely these people are the ones who may have tried duplex loads…mixing 2different smokeless powders….a recipe for disaster….!!There are several factors in play. The first one is black powder is measured by volume whereas smokeless is measured by weight. There is a huge difference between the two.
People that do not know better will measure smokeless propellant by volume and wind up with way too much propellant to charge the gun with. Thus blowing up the gun when they fire it off.
It is possible to use smokeless propellants in some guns. The .45 Colt and the .45-70 are two examples of it being done. But you have to be extremely careful though to not exceed the gun’s design capability. Not all guns are created equal.
They have made muzzleloaders that are designed to use smokeless propellants. But the user has to be extremely careful in loading the gun correctly. Most of the manufacturers quit making them due to the stupidity and laziness of people using and blowing them up. Then actually suing the manufacturer for their stupidity.
Never never charge BP rifle or pistol with smokless powder…I have several BP rifles and pistol’s and two smokeless rifles and after several years of shooting all of them I have converted my BP loads from volume to weight as I do with smokeless…accuracy is much better and a lot safer as I know exactly what I am dropping down my barrelI crossed paths with a video on this forum, can’t remember where, that demonstrated what happens with smokeless powder. Scary! It blew up every ML it was loaded in! I thought it was a bit of an over charge at 150 grains, but with BP I think the barrels would have survived? Is the issue the metal ML’s are made of? Barrel Wall thickness? How can a cheap black gun pop off smokeless forever and an expensive BP barrel becomes a cautionary tale? I don’t want to shoot the stuff, just curious.
Never never charge BP rifle or pistol with smokless powder…I have several BP rifles and pistol’s and two smokeless rifles and after several years of shooting all of them I have converted my BP loads from volume to weight as I do with smokeless…accuracy is much better and a lot safer as I know exactly what I am dropping down my barrel
As an avid reloader of 'unmentionables', 30grs of 2400 is A LOT! Book max load for 44 Rem Mag using 2400 and if I recall correctly, a 200gr jacketed bullet, using 2400 is 24grs according to Alliant (maker of 2400)!30gr of 2400 instead of 30gr of 3Fg - the shooter was injured in the are of the eyes and forehead.
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I wouldn't be able to speculate what amount of smokeless would burst a ML barrel. As others here have said, these things are engineered for their intended purpose. The vids of people deliberately destroying guns baffle me...I've got less money and more common sense I guess.
I've heard of 3000+ fps in some smaller caliber inlines using a sabot and a large charge of synthetic BP. Not really anything I've had much interest to look into further.
As an avid reloader of 'unmentionables', 30grs of 2400 is A LOT! Book max load for 44 Rem Mag using 2400 and if I recall correctly, a 200gr jacketed bullet, using 2400 is 24grs according to Alliant (maker of 2400)!
Using real black powder with a sabot bullet the maximum muzzle velocity for a muzzleloader is a little over 2100 fps. I have read that from several people so far. Some of the BP substitutes can exceed that though. It is a problem with BP where the gasses have to push not only the bullet but the smoke particles and combustion products too. It all has weight or mass.
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