Why don't more people shoot muzzleloaders???

[WV MZL HUNTER]

We as black powder nuts need to take a kid with us to shoot. I have got several kids into the sport. But you also have to help them clean the gun and teach them safety and so on. Cleaning a black powder gun does not take that long. I take as much time cleaning my other guns as I do my muzzleloaders. Most all the kids I have let shoot my muzzleloader don't want to quit. I would say that over 500 kids have shot my guns. I have ran a NWTF JAKES DAY for over 8 years.

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Teague,
Hope it is nothing more than a passing cold and you are up and around before you know it.
Best Wishes

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Maybe if you all stop calling them weapons, and start calling them firearms, what they are. More people might think they wont die by trying them.

lack of information, or worst, misinfomation in this stupid PC country, it what is keeping the youngins away.

More young boys are being raised by mothers, with no fathers, something, very few of us can say. Mothers has sissyfied the boys, and firearms education is one place that has suffered greatly.

My EX, whom is a left wing tree hugger, we met do to her older brother taking her to a rondy in her 40s. I met her son when he was 16 and had no idea about firearms, becuase mom siad they were bad.

Well, when we broke up, she and he took thier 54 cals with them, and both are well versed in firearms safety. (Shes still a lefty, hey one out of two aint bad)

 

To answer part of your question. Probably for the same reason many Deer hunters go all year long without practicing with their scoped centerfire rifles. Many will wait until a day or two before opening before they'll actually go out and fire a few rounds to check their zero.

 

[David Teague]

Flu... but I'm feeling better today.

Thank you.

Cheers,

DT

 

[oomcurt]

Just my usual two cents here at the end.. Now this applies to those that have muzzleloaders but don't use them as well as to those that have no interest. Some are lazy, no doubt about it. Then we have what I call "challenged"...with some of them, they never used a screwdriver before in thier lives, much less anything like a skill saw. So....they see "danger" everywhere. But overall, I think there is a larger reason. Now, I could be wrong....but if one were to do a census of new muzzleloaders over say, the past three years...would you have a predominently larger group of young people, or older ones? Reason I ask this is look around you...young folks today are really like lemmings for the most part...they have to look like every other person thier age. Look at what they buy in cars...modern, with all the whistles. In short, I bet they would be mortified if say someone from where they work were to see them shooting something as archaic as a muzzleloader, never mind the trauma they would feel is thier peers saw them in buckskins and such. To be honest...and I'll bet our great grandparents thought the same thing...something they loved was being phased out do to lack of interest....same with our pleasure...Do I like to see this happen? Hell no. Can we stop the world and tell it to go back in time..nope. Sad to say....I really believe we are in effect living in Camelot. What upsets me far more than the lack of interest in muzzleloading is the direction things are going regarding hunting and land to hunt on.

 

[smokeblower]

" Because I will have to clean it if i shoot is Dad" that was my 16 year-olds excuse. Laziness #1

Lack of intrest #2

and for my 16 year old, because none of his friends shoot them. If all his friends had one he would be begging for one.

 

I agree with you on some of what you're saying oomcurt, but I think the biggest problem with todays youth is that they want to sit in front of the boob tube and play these new high tech video games. They're also quite interested in computers too. Kind of like what I'm doing now.

 

My nephew was at our house last night and I was showing him my ML rifles and casting gear.He was asking me all kinds of qeustions about ML shooting.I told him next time I go shooting he could go with me.He said he wants to get a ML kit and if I could help him.If I had the cash I would buy it for him.I told him he could buy a completed rifle but he refused,he said "I want to make my own".He is 18,so a few kids are interested.

 

That's rather interesting CROWHOP. Not so much in the fact that your nephew is interested in muzzeloading, which is a wonderful thing! But the fact that he wants to build one of his own, I find that rather fascinaing! Urge him on!!

 

[AZ-Robert]

Different strokes for different folks. Take a look at one's own likes and dislikes, question is answered.

Exactly. I'm a little slow some times, so it took me a while to figure out I'm a "process oriented" person. I enjoy the doing of a thing at least as much as getting it done. So I actually enjoy the act of loading each shot, getting the flint set in there just right, getting the sights on target, and derive satisfaction from being part of it all coming together to get that "whoosh-BANG!"

Folks who are a little more "outcome oriented" are happier with an autoloader. Folks who are WAY over on that end of the spectrum just get their meat at the market and be done with it. Chances are ML shooting is not going to appeal to them. If they give it a try, it will be a passing fancy and the gun will end up much like those unused golf clubs in the garage once they realize the time and effort involved.

 

[oomcurt]

I think you have something there. Also does Flyboy in his post. "Outcome oriented" or Results oriented..kind of the same thing. How many kids today are interested in model airplane building, model trains, and so forth? In a way...I blame societies views today as to what is desireable. Computers....outcome oriented...type something in..immediate answer. Nintendo...immediate play. No setting anything up. One other thing..since the arrival of tv....ever notice kids no longer have the imagination they once had. Something else....spacial vision...a lot of people I know cannot visualize how somthing will look when finished in thier minds. I guess what I am trying to say is..today it is almost taboo to want to make something with your hands. How many kids want to be a carpenter when they grow up? Oh no, the computer field is where you want to work...and so on. Sure, you will find the occasional kid that has his head screwed on straight..but those kind are getting scarce, imo. Using one's hands...yup..definetely have to use one's hands in shooting a muzzleloader. Not to mention the fact that it is an outdoor activity...what?? Stand in the sun...I will get skin cancer. Bah! I've been standing in the sun for a long long time before I retired...still don't have anything like that...but then after so many years, one gets a pretty tough hide. Today, the majority of people I see on the streets either look like some fashion model that never sets foot outside of a photo studio..or else they look like they have advanced stages of anemia.

 

[David Teague]

Hello Johnny,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but all forms of firearms ARE weapons....

Period.

Here is the opening of the definitions of the term Firearm according to wikipedia.

"A firearm is a weapon that fires either single or multiple projectiles propelled at high velocity by the gases produced through rapid, confined burning of a propellant. This process of rapid burning is technically known as deflagration. In older firearms, this propellant was typically black powder, but modern firearms use smokeless powder or other propellants."

Here is the link if you wish to read more about it: What is a firearm?


You need to understand that to wish something is not so, does not change the fact that is so.

Sorry.

Cheers,

DT

 

[tg]

I think the point here is to use a term less offensive to the other side, many names can be used to describe an item, we can choose the one with a softer tone.

 

[David Teague]

I use the term firearm myself and only use the term "gun" when it's a smoothbore or cannon.

It might have been the flu meds and a bit a scotch that made me come across a lot sharper in tone than I meant... the problem with the written word. :redface:

My point was that the post in question stated that they wern't... not that we could try to upsell our sport by being careful in using more neutral terms, which "firearm" is not. To those that fear and don't understand them, ANY name that is connected to them (gun, gat, heater, "well heeled", pistol, carrying" etc.) will still envoke a strong negative response if they know it and connect it with our hobby... but it seems the true question wasn't "how to get" more people out for hobby, but "how to get" those who already own a muzzleloader out to the range to shoot.

You can't, unless they want to come out. Many of us here are in our late 40's or older and we've seen this cycle before. A number of TC's & cheap flintlocks sold after the bicentenal, just to sit in closets around the US. Same thing happened after the movie "Jerahmia Johnson"... there was a big spike in Black Powder sales in the mid 80's, then the sport seemed to peak and die off.( Most of the clubs that formed in the 70's that I shot with are long gone...)

I mean it's our sport. Do we need thousands more at the ranges to be hip or cool? I've seen this sport grow, develope, and mature over most of my life.

With the internet and places like this, it's much easier to take up this hobby that when I was a 13 yead old greenhorn ordering a Indian made soothbore carbine with my Moms help.(She had to sign the "I'm over 18 form)

I mean look at what this sport offers to those who want it. Reenactment from the 1300's to cowboy action shooting, hunting, trail walks, live fire groups that dress like reenactors, rondies, inlines (gasp! :shake: ), the list goes on and on.

The reason you might not see everybody that shoots a muzzleloader is that you not going to all the right places. :winking: (Many of us "pass in the night" without ever meeting if we do a different form of black powder... even in this little town of Anchorage)

Woop's! I just fell off the soap box and sprained my ankle. :redface: I better go put ice on it.

David

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Hello Johnny,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but all forms of firearms ARE weapons....

Period.

Here is the opening of the definitions of the term Firearm according to wikipedia.

"A firearm is a weapon that fires either single or multiple projectiles propelled at high velocity by the gases produced through rapid, confined burning of a propellant. This process of rapid burning is technically known as deflagration. In older firearms, this propellant was typically black powder, but modern firearms use smokeless powder or other propellants."

Here is the link if you wish to read more about it: What is a firearm?


You need to understand that to wish something is not so, does not change the fact that is so.

Sorry.

Cheers,

DT

Using your same source:
[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon[/url]

I dont know about you, but my muzzleloader is not used for ANY of those reasons.

This is where the liberals draw the line and infect the young ones with their PC rederic.

A firearm can be used as a weapon, but some of us use muzzleloaders for target shooting only. We use it for niether offense, nor defense, Ive not even dented a metal target yet, let alone damage one.

Even for home protection, Id use my hawk and knife WAY before Id shoot someone, so they would be more of a weapon than my bore stuffer.

When I retired from the Army, and got into rondies heavy. All the old timers would scold me for always calling my muzzleloader a weapon.

The news media does enough to try and stop gun ownership in the US. Those of us, that enjoy using htem, should fight tooth and nail, to be able to use them.

Last night, I heard that a street punk killed three people with a "automatic handgun". We all know its not. Everyday I read, and see who many AK-47s there are in the US. Yet the last one was made in 1961, and in fact they are rare.

You can use your firearms as weapons, Firearms dont kill, people kill, people.

Bubble intact

 

Nice point made Dave. My 9 year old son and I just started the Rondy thing last year . We both loved it. This year we're planning on going to at least two. This is just another way to get kids involved in the sport of muzzeleoading.

By the way, my son and I spend quite a bit of time throwing hawks. We both really love it!!

 

[David Teague]

I use the term firearm myself and only use the term "gun" when it's a smoothbore or cannon.

It might have been the flu meds and a bit a scotch that made me come across a lot sharper in tone than I meant... the problem with the written word. :redface:

I dont know about you, but my muzzleloader is not used for ANY of those reasons....

The news media does enough to try and stop gun ownership in the US. Those of us, that enjoy using htem, should fight tooth and nail, to be able to use them....

Last night, I heard that a street punk killed three people with a "automatic handgun". We all know its not. Everyday I read, and see who many AK-47s there are in the US. Yet the last one was made in 1961, and in fact they are rare.

You can use your firearms as weapons, Firearms dont kill, people kill, people.

Hello Johnny,

I hope you saw my later post about being sorry for coming across too harsh with my prior post.

I don't disagree with you on the issue of fighting to keep our rights intact. I belong to the NRA (and hope you do too), have for 32 years now and I send them $100's of dollars each year to help with the never ending assault on our second amendment right.

We are on the same page here as I believe are most of us that read this forum.

However, I do feel that the trendy catch phrases that many of us use are turned against us by the anti-gun forces and those in the news. True or not, they are taken and spun against us, so I no longer use them in print or as a bumper sticker.(I just hate giving the other side free ammo).

Most of my collection are based off of prior service firearms or those of the American frontier... firearms that were designed for offense or defense... in the case of my Trade gun it's meant as a hunting arm that could be used for defense/offense as is my J&S Hawkins. So, it's imposable to candy coat the fact that they are weapons... just like my sword collection.

Do I use them as such? No, like you I just punch paper with them.

When it comes to my swords, I do train with them and teach with them as a western marshal art (WMA)... but I have no plans on ever using one "for real" in a life and death struggle.

I have lived 47 years on this planet without ever having to use any of my "weapons" training skills and I hope that I never do.

However, I think we are doing 2 things here:

1. Derailing the thread.
2. Getting far to close to the "gun ban" issue that we are not to discuss here.

So let's just say that we agree to disagree on this issue as I'm sure we both agree on about everything else. :hatsoff:

So, to bring this back in focus:

Sometimes we run off new people by scaring them to death... Some of the pinheaded things I've seen done to interested shooters.

1.Give the newby a big bore rifle loaded with 120 grains of powder as a "joke" ( I saw this happen many times at events... pinheads :shake: ) Then, the newby shooter never wants to have anything to do with that club, person, or muzzleloading again.

2.Scaring them away with the high cost. The local black powder club has made a point of setting up tables at the local gun show for years... (now I don't shoot with the local club anymore but I'd stop by and chat with friends of mine that were manning the booth.)A few years ago, a young couple was showing great interest in the rifles, horns and gear. One of my friends had a custom pouch he'd made laying there on the table, the young man was asking the right questions and then he came to the nice possible bag.

"So, I need one of these to carry my stuff, huh?"

'Yep", said my friend, "I made the one you're looking at right now."

"How much do they cost"

"Well, I don't do nothin for less than $20 bucks a hour, so a bag like that would cost you about $700." :shake:

The young man turned dead white, grabbed his pretty wife's hand and said:

"Thanks, got to run now"

(My friend never knew what he did to chase off that kid... :shake: )

Maybe it's the fact that I'm a salesman with 20 odd years of working with the general public but I'd never had said $700 to a person looking to get into muzzleloading for the first time. I would have told him there are a lot of nice cheap bags out there to start with and if you really get in to it, I'll show you how to make a bag... but I guess I already do stuff like that in my living history group.

Think about it... how many of you have seen (or done :nono things like the above issuesthat chased off a shooter before they even got started?

Cheers,

DT

 

[Hoyt]

I personally think one potential market for muzzle loader shooters is spring gobbler guns. That's what got me into flintlocks. Every yr. before spring turkey season I see inquiries wanting to buy a reasonable priced muzzle loader for turkey hunting.
I just believe with a little marketing if someone could build a no-frills model smooth bore there's a niche for them.

 

[Claude Mathis]

My reply is directed at one one in particular., but...

Please don't sidetrack this thread into the "a firearm isn't a weapon" debate.

I'm tired of listening to this nonsense. Call it what you will. We're here to discuss MUZZLELOADING, not redefine something that has been around for hundreds of years.

Everybody knows what they are when they see one.