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Why don't more people shoot muzzleloaders???
- Thread starter doverdog
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Claude, :thumbsup: That said...this "thing" that is so prevalent today...using the right term..or should I say "PC" term. Sheesh.... Never ever have I heard such a bunch of clap trap as that. I call something what I want to call it...animal, vegetable, or mineral...alive or dead. I don't really care if someone hears what I called something and gets offended. That is what is wrong with our country today..Can't say this..can't say that. Well...not me.
arcticap
54 Cal.
I think that there are lots of reason why there aren't more "active" or new ML shooters:
A new shooter may feel a bit overwhelmed by the amount of accessories needed to go along with their new gun.
Many recreational shooters who are pressed for time would like to go out to their local range for an hour or two and do some shooting and move on to their family or personal business. But for several reasons, muzzle loading often requires more equipment and set up time before one can even get started shooting. The pace of shooting is much slower since we are only shooting what are essentially single shot guns (except for revolvers). Then, one has to look forward to the required amount of cleaning time, when people would rather attend to other matters.
So maybe many people make a decision that they aren't going to shoot their muzzle loader as often and choose to rather shoot their more modern guns that require less time to both set up for at the range and maintenance time later.
Also, muzzle loading is not something that is accepted as an indoor range activity.
Many shooters often have a wide variety of shooting interests, both formal and informal. Because many of each of these other types of shooting activities usually require less of a committment of maintenance, equipment, effort and time, many people may believe that actively pursuing muzzle loading as a regular hobby is just not as desirable as a hobby.
Many people like to shoot their rifles accurately at longer ranges over 100 yards or more and I think many shooters can get disappointed by how consistently accurate (or inaccurate) their muzzle loading carbines perform at longer ranges.
Also, the ergonomics of the stock designs of many classical styled muzzle loaders, and heavier barrel weights often make for a less comfortable gun to hold and shoot, so this may be another factor affecting overall popularity of muzzle loading in general vs. the investment satisfaction when made in a modern centerfire rifle.
Lastly, many people may feel that any black powder shooting is simply a dirtier and messier hobby than modern guns are and is just not worth the effort. It can be dirtier on the hands, clothes, and air and also within the home during cleaning.
Now please don't think that I feel this way. Notice that I mentioned nothing about the degree of personal satisfaction one derives from muzzle loading shooting vs. modern guns, that's strictly a decision every person makes for themself. :winking:
A new shooter may feel a bit overwhelmed by the amount of accessories needed to go along with their new gun.
Many recreational shooters who are pressed for time would like to go out to their local range for an hour or two and do some shooting and move on to their family or personal business. But for several reasons, muzzle loading often requires more equipment and set up time before one can even get started shooting. The pace of shooting is much slower since we are only shooting what are essentially single shot guns (except for revolvers). Then, one has to look forward to the required amount of cleaning time, when people would rather attend to other matters.
So maybe many people make a decision that they aren't going to shoot their muzzle loader as often and choose to rather shoot their more modern guns that require less time to both set up for at the range and maintenance time later.
Also, muzzle loading is not something that is accepted as an indoor range activity.
Many shooters often have a wide variety of shooting interests, both formal and informal. Because many of each of these other types of shooting activities usually require less of a committment of maintenance, equipment, effort and time, many people may believe that actively pursuing muzzle loading as a regular hobby is just not as desirable as a hobby.
Many people like to shoot their rifles accurately at longer ranges over 100 yards or more and I think many shooters can get disappointed by how consistently accurate (or inaccurate) their muzzle loading carbines perform at longer ranges.
Also, the ergonomics of the stock designs of many classical styled muzzle loaders, and heavier barrel weights often make for a less comfortable gun to hold and shoot, so this may be another factor affecting overall popularity of muzzle loading in general vs. the investment satisfaction when made in a modern centerfire rifle.
Lastly, many people may feel that any black powder shooting is simply a dirtier and messier hobby than modern guns are and is just not worth the effort. It can be dirtier on the hands, clothes, and air and also within the home during cleaning.
Now please don't think that I feel this way. Notice that I mentioned nothing about the degree of personal satisfaction one derives from muzzle loading shooting vs. modern guns, that's strictly a decision every person makes for themself. :winking:
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I think we are rather nicely back on track... 
(and I like the cleaning part of black powder shooting too!)
Cheers,
DT
(and I like the cleaning part of black powder shooting too!) Cheers,
DT
from what I see around here most people are into quick and easy, instant gratification so to speak. now I don't think that is gonna happen with a flintlock, it takes time to get to know a flintlock or even a caplock. a lot of people around here went and got themselves a muzzleloader, you know what kind I'm talking about, sabots, pellets, scopes and such. and pretty much shoot better than me their first time out, I may be getting a little off track here but I think they would be embarrres to shoot like me, I guess the competition kinda comes into play, some people think they have to be better at things. Me, I love shooting the flintlock, making my own balls and figuring things out, I don't try to outshoot anyone at the range. I think all in all learning to shoot a real muzzleloader just takes too much time and patience for most people. flinch
akapennypincher
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David Teague said:
You are correct, but if you would ever want the New Media to come to a Muzzleloading Shoot, and do a Positive story. About those who shoot Muzzleloader NOT BEING JUST GUN NUTS.
I would say the Politically Correct thing. That is calling Muzzleloader Historical Muzzleloading Firearms like the ones Our Forefathers used to Win Independence from the British in the Revolutionary War. That help found the United States of America.
P.C. is BU**S**T. but sometimes it is nessessary to help make a POSITIVE POINT..... :blah:
Arcticap, I agree on every point. The investment in time is substantial and many people just don't have it to spare. This is especially true of younger shooters with young families. They're trying to get established in their work, secure a home, meet the family demands and please a young wife.
For many, this doesn't translate into a lot of idle hours for setup, relaxed shooting, teardown, careful cleanup and maintenance. In fact, many wives begrudge the husband every minute he spends with his guns and will exact enough payment for this 'good time' that the poor guy gets discouraged and gives up. How much quicker and easier is it to simply stop at the range on the way home from work, run a few clips through the 9mm and put off the cleaning 'til the weekend when the wife runs the kids to the roller rink?
Face it. Shooting muzzleloaders is a game for the retired, the single, and those who have been particularly lucky in their spousal choice.
FWIW
Bob
For many, this doesn't translate into a lot of idle hours for setup, relaxed shooting, teardown, careful cleanup and maintenance. In fact, many wives begrudge the husband every minute he spends with his guns and will exact enough payment for this 'good time' that the poor guy gets discouraged and gives up. How much quicker and easier is it to simply stop at the range on the way home from work, run a few clips through the 9mm and put off the cleaning 'til the weekend when the wife runs the kids to the roller rink?
Face it. Shooting muzzleloaders is a game for the retired, the single, and those who have been particularly lucky in their spousal choice.
FWIW
Bob
arcticap said:
Very true. And it is not just the price issue... he doesn't even know just what he needs. How often is a new member's first post on this forum, "so I just bought this great gun, now what do I need to shoot it?" Which illustrates another hurdle someone interested in ML faces... unless you know somebody that knows somebody who can show you the ropes, an incipient interest in ML might never blossom into the full-blown addiction afflicting most of us.
I think David Teague hit it squarely here
You bet it is. A quick search via google and next thing you know I found myself here. Had it been otherwise, I probably wouldn't be shooting MLs now.
Guest
I'll agree with most of what you have to say arcticap. There is alot of accessories that go along with front stuffers. Having to carry a patch worm, ball puller and jag would seem a little overwhelming to a Greenhorn.
You mentioned the drop in the stock. By todays standards that's not ergonomically correct. When you get into the heavier calibers the drop in the stock is going to come into play.
You mentioned the cleaning and maintenance of same. Let's face it, it's a royal pain in the ass to properly clean and maintain BP firearms as opposed to firearms utilizing Smokeless Powde
Personally speaking, I enjoy the time I spend cleaning my firearms. It's kind of like a bonding with a beautiful piece of maple or walnut and steel. It's almost erotic!!
You mentioned the drop in the stock. By todays standards that's not ergonomically correct. When you get into the heavier calibers the drop in the stock is going to come into play.
You mentioned the cleaning and maintenance of same. Let's face it, it's a royal pain in the ass to properly clean and maintain BP firearms as opposed to firearms utilizing Smokeless Powde
Personally speaking, I enjoy the time I spend cleaning my firearms. It's kind of like a bonding with a beautiful piece of maple or walnut and steel. It's almost erotic!!
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:shocked2:flyboy said:
Ok, I like bonding with my black powder firearms too when I clean them, but I think you just took it the next level... :shocked2:
but... I do know what you mean. :winking:
DT
Maybe this should be one of those little secrets we keep in the "gun safe"... :redface:
:winking:
I'm not sure I agree with you on all of that. First off, I find it hard to believe that the fellow cannot take one saturday or sunday morning and early afternoon off once per month to do some shooting (the club I belong to shoots once a month). Neither can I imagine that at some time between when the guy gets home and before he goes to bed he cannot spend 20 minutes cleaning his gun. About luck in haveing a understanding spouse...now I realize if the guy gets the urge after he has been married for some time there may be a conflict, but I would think he would have had some interest in some kind of guns before getting married. I know in my case (was married once before and am married now) I made dang sure the future wife had no objections. If she did..I simply would not have married her, really.
i can think of a number of reason why people don't get into it. it takes time to load you just get one shot some people say [the ones that never seen one shoot]they not accurate. ,all the stuff you gotta take just to shoot the gun.and the cleaning part . i have a friend who brags about all the guns he has used but he won,t shoot the flinter .i think the flash in the pan scares him :shake: .the biggest thing i think is they fear the unknown .
buzz bait said:
Me too and it's not very complicated. People aren't getting into muzzleloading for the same reason I'll never take up golf (or any number of activities)... no interest. Simple as that.
I think it's human nature for us to wonder why everybody doesn't enjoy the same things we do. Some feel compelled to evangelize and make them "see the light", but that's a frustrating endeavor.
Enjoy your hobbies and do share them, but don't be disappointed when others don't share your enthusiasm. Some will, but most won't.
Claude Mathis said:
I don't have a buring desire to evangelize this...but along the lines of this thread, I go back to an earlier suggestion I posted which was that a lot of this "apparent" lack of interest may well be a "lack of awareness".
IMO, people do what they "want" to do...they find time to play tennis, golf, go hiking, camping, go fishing, skydiving, on and on and on...so if somebody 'wanted to' they would find time to explore traditional muzzleloading.
But they have to be made aware there's even something like that in existence...ie: my earlier post asking about the feasibility of a joint, common traditional muzzleloading awareness campaign by all (or many) muzzleloading related websites...
Not replying to any specific posting. Ever think that just maybe it is a good thing that our hobby is not as popular as some others are? Places to shoot are not exactly every mile or so down the road. Can you imagine what it would be like if muzzleloading got to where pro sports are now? K Mart would have whole aisles where one could find capotes, leggings, and all that...maybe even some that have autographs on them. Sheesh..nightmares! From what I have seen, muzzleloading appears to have a pretty level headed, feet on the ground type of participants..not so in so many other activities today. Then we have the regimen/routine of caring for our guns as well as the enjoyment of making things ourselves. Not everyone likes that type of thing. Do we really want to have a huge number of folks doing what we do...and all the attending problems with that? I don't. As for those already "in" our hobby/passion/call it what you wish...like anything else...some folks just get bored or tired of it.
I wouldn't want the pendulum swung to the other extreme either...I just worry that if the bulk of the people interested in the more traditional side of muzzleloading have or are getting grey hair...where's the replacement wave of people going to come from?
Why don't more people shoot muzzleloaders/
How can more people be made aware quicker that there is something actually available called traditional muzzleloading?
etc
etc
Why don't more people shoot muzzleloaders/
How can more people be made aware quicker that there is something actually available called traditional muzzleloading?
etc
etc
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It's easy Round Ball, we die off, our kids sell our gun collections, somebody who cares buys em, and the cycle starts over. :rotf:
arcticap
54 Cal.
Muzzle loading is especially popular in Europe and from what I can tell, Poland has a growing number of traditional shooters as it has become Westernized and a legalized activity. Even here there is a constant influx of new participants from the other hunting/shooting disciplines like archery and centerfire. So as some drop out of the activity, others begin to pursue it. Hopefully, the overall numbers will at least remain somewhat constant as new people catch the ML bug.
The only real drawback is that people's recreational hunting/shooting interests can get spread too thin, not leaving them enough time to actively spend on many. I've never heard it said that a person can have too many guns... :grin:
The only real drawback is that people's recreational hunting/shooting interests can get spread too thin, not leaving them enough time to actively spend on many. I've never heard it said that a person can have too many guns... :grin:
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