Why patch boxes?

[Col. Batguano]

[/quote]
I think it's a final test of our patience in building.....metalwork, fit/function/inletting.....
marc n tomtom[/quote]

Amen. Without a complicated release they take me about 20 hours' work to carve out and install (mostly because I'm slow). And getting them to fit and function after the varnish goes on can be an additional challenge.

 

[tenngun]

Get you a small tin like an old cap box and fill it with butter, lard,tallow or bacon grease. Set it on its side in your house. Put it on a paper plate so your wife won't slap you. Come back in an hour or two. Did it melt? It's in the 70s in your house, and it won't be liquid, but some will have ran or ozzed out of that hole on to your now greasy plate.

 

[Gene L]

I don't know about the other things mentioned in your post, but lard is sold in the supermarket in cardboard boxes at supermarket temperature and it doesn't leave a puddle. It's not necessary to refrigerate it.

Our (or my) ancestors drilled holes in the stocks of their rifles in order to put tallow in them to grease patches. They did this for a very practical reason. Some way or somehow they dealt with the melting problem.

I'll try your experiment with a can of Crisco and that patch lube that smells like menthol, (Bore Butter?) turned on its side. I'll report back with the results.

 

[hanshi]

Only 3 of my guns have patch boxes and I carry and extra flint, extra patches, maybe an extra ball, etc.

According to the journal of an 18th century gunsmith, Those nice, decorative compartments were designed and put there to hold a single Snickers bar. Apparently a very old Snickers was found in the patchbox of a rifle that once belonged to Robert Rogers. Snickers bars were in high demand from about 1765 through 1830 and were used to purchase furs from the Indians. This was eventually made illegal because of what the candy did to the teeth of the NDNs.

By 1832 they were used to carry M&Ms (the peanut kind) and/or lipstick.

 

[George]

They may have been used for greasing things other than the patch.

Practical Instructions for Military Officers, for the District of Massachusetts”, Epaphras Hoyt, 1811

pg. 113 "In the butt or the rifle there is a box for grease This must be always well replenished, that the patches may be kept suitably greased for loading with loose ball, the lock properly dressed, and every part of the rifle in complete order for service."

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

Great reference Spence,.......It validates that grease storage was indeed an intended use..... :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[Vaino]

I've installed Pboxes on every LR I've made and if a LR doesn't have one, it doesn't sell as well and just doesn't look right. I don't stuff anything in the Pboxes of my hunting LRs and often wonder why they were created in the first place...except for being pretty. Hand made Pboxes entail quite a few hrs to make and more hrs to install....but, a LR w/ carving just has to have one. Someone once said that a Pbox is just a large decorative inlay so why not just make it a simple inlay....minus the lid, etc? Well...it just wouldn't look right.

For those of you who do use a Pbox for storage, good for you....Fred

 

[coloradoclyde]

For me, the logical conclusion is the patch boxes started as uncovered grease holes......Evolving over time to become covered and protect the grease......Later on as methods, materials, and practices changed They evolved into aesthetically pleasing junk drawers.

 

[Stophel]

Patchboxes started as patchboxes, with sliding wood covers. Sometimes people used them for patches, sometimes to hold cleaning equipment (old rifles are found with either inside. Sometimes, they are found with crusty old grease in them).

Keeping pre cut patches in your pocket or shooting bag requires you to hold them in some separate container... that you then have to dig out and open up and get a patch out of. Why not just have them on the gun, handy?

I have yet to see any documentation of cutting patches at the muzzle going back to the 18th century (or even the 19th century) ????? :idunno:


I never understood the open grease holes. I wouldn't be able to stand the grease soaking into my wood... and it would get full of gritty crud in short order, not to mention smearing grease all over your shirt sleeve.

 

[TNGhost]

Seems to me it would be the same reason military rifles had butt-traps and M4s have hollow handles. So when you grab your rifle and go, you've got "stuff" you need to shoot it handy. :grin:

 

[George]

I have yet to see any documentation of cutting patches at the muzzle going back to the 18th century (or even the 19th century) ?????

I thought everyone would have seen the description by Audubon, early 19th-century Kentucky:

"To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen."

"He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the “patch” over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen."

Spence

 

[Stophel]

Thank you! And actually, I think I have seen it, but totally forgot it!

 

[coloradoclyde]

The score is....
Spence 2

Away 0


:haha:

 

[Gene L]

A report on a follow up to tenngun's mention of tallow melting at room temperature in a tallow hole.

I did as suggested, not from a tin, but sideways on a plate with a container of Bore Butter. After an hour and a half or so, none had melted and oozed out of the container.

Next, I turned the container upside down on the plate. It didn't pollute the plate, either.

Therefore, I'm convinced the tallow hole is practical. I may drill one in my squirrel rifle's stock.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Gene,
I drilled one in one of my guns several years ago....used a forstner bit......
I like it...It has worked real well for me. Not one problem.
I fill it with a mixture and beeswax and olive oil....
When I fill it I pour the lube in hot....and let it cool....

I also have lard candles made from store bought Manateca lard.....none of them have melted yet either.....

 

[tenngun]

I am surprised. Our house is kept about 68 in the winter. Butter and bacon grease out, although covered on the kitchen counter. It stays soft enough that it will fall off any thing if not real careful when transporting it to frying pan ect. My Mink oil will oze if the container is on its side. Glad it worked for you.

 

[Jim C]

Only 3 of my guns have patch boxes and I carry and extra flint, extra patches, maybe an extra ball, etc.

According to the journal of an 18th century gunsmith, Those nice, decorative compartments were designed and put there to hold a single Snickers bar. Apparently a very old Snickers was found in the patchbox of a rifle that once belonged to Robert Rogers. Snickers bars were in high demand from about 1765 through 1830 and were used to purchase furs from the Indians. This was eventually made illegal because of what the candy did to the teeth of the NDNs.

By 1832 they were used to carry M&Ms (the peanut kind) and/or lipstick.

:rotf:

 

[Gene L]

I am surprised. Our house is kept about 68 in the winter. Butter and bacon grease out, although covered on the kitchen counter. It stays soft enough that it will fall off any thing if not real careful when transporting it to frying pan ect. My Mink oil will oze if the container is on its side. Glad it worked for you.

Butter and bacon grease get real soft at my house, but not lard or Crisco (Bore Butter). I suspect they have a higher melting temperature than butter or bacon grease. Bacon grease is almost liquid.

Need something a little stiffer I believe. Not familiar with mink oil.

 

[tenngun]

It looks solid and feels like shoe polish but slieds very slowly to the side if the can is turned

 

[Col. Batguano]

According to the journal of an 18th century gunsmith, Those nice, decorative compartments were designed and put there to hold a single Snickers bar. Apparently a very old Snickers was found in the patchbox of a rifle that once belonged to Robert Rogers. Snickers bars were in high demand from about 1765 through 1830 and were used to purchase furs from the Indians. This was eventually made illegal because of what the candy did to the teeth of the NDNs.

By 1832 they were used to carry M&Ms (the peanut kind) and/or lipstick.

We've read it on the internet, so it must be true.

I heard a story from my cousin's neighbor's former room mate that he bought an original matchlock (that came from an Anasazi Indian dwelling) and he found an original Twinkie in it. A maizing.