Why patch boxes?

[Billnpatti]

Hard to get the butt over the muzzle to load :haha: I've not seen this tell us more.

The answer is quite simple, there is a hinge in the barrel and another in the wrist. Hmmm :hmm: I may build one........and then again, maybe not.

 

[Artificer]

It looks to me like the gunsmith made a special sized boring bit for the holes in the Deschler gun. Has anyone ever tried putting balls with patch material sewn around them and that fit the bore of the rifle in those holes?

Gus

 

[tenngun]

This is what I was thinking. As sewn balls were known. So just looking at this I thought pre sewn and greased stuffed in to the hole with enough left free you could pinch it and load. Have you seen this on any other gun. One-of-a-kind things have little chance of surviving to be seen today. Yet in a world of hand made one- of- a- kind existed. Some made the first waist leaght weskits or tail coats. Jefferson didn't wear the first Jefferson booties, he just made news by wearing then to his anugeration.
I suck at patch boxes so I don't think I will try it. I would like to know what it was for and how it worked.

 

[Stophel]

The barrel is heavily damaged, and the original bore is long gone.

 

[Artificer]

The barrel is heavily damaged, and the original bore is long gone.

That's a shame, but thanks for the info.

Gus

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

Because it gave old man Dickert something to engrave on while his apprentices were building the rifles.

 

[TFoley]

Some Euopean shooters sewed the ball in to a full sized patch. I wonder if that was what was done here?

Guess they had time on their hands to make a right good job of all that fancy embroidery. In America most folks were too intent on keeping the natives, the British, and large fanged and clawed wildlife as far away as possible to bother about fancy needlework.

The only swen-up patches I've ever seen in North America were on the knees of my pants.

tac

 

[George]

A most interesting thread, to be sure; period validation for both pre-cut patches and patches cut at the muzzle; greased patches sewn around the ball with light thread (so as to easily separate upon firing).

And military instructions to drive the ball "down close upon the powder, but not so as to bruise the grains."

There's more. Hoyt, again, about the mallet/short starter:

"As the thickness of the barrel necessarily renders the rifle heavy, the wooden rod is recommended in preference to the iron one; this, with a small wooden mallet, the handle of which must be suited to the bore of the rifle and about twelve inches in length, with which every rifleman should be provided, will enable him to load his piece with facility."

And:

"Manual of Arms Loading Instructions:
VI. Drive Ball! One Compound Motion
Bring up the mallet, flipping the finger from the ball, and with one or two strokes drive the ball into the muzzle; with a quick motion, place the end of the handle upon the ball and grasp it with the thumb and finger of the left hand, and with a few smart strokes upon the mallet with the right hand, drive the ball down the full length of the handle; instantly return the mallet to its sheath ”¦"

Spence

 

[Artificer]

Though technically a mallet/short starter combination "tool" or accoutrement, is this the earliest documentation you have on the use of a short starter?

Gus

 

[George]

In America, yes, but there is an 1808 reference from the British.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/281669/post/1301072/hl//fromsearch/1/

Spence

 

[Artificer]

Thanks a lot, Spence. I really appreciate it.

Gus

 

[eggwelder]

if the soldiers made up their own cartridges, they had time to sew patches around balls. anyone who has ever been a soldier knows the mantra-"hurry up and wait!!". soldiers life is long periods of normalcy punctuated by brief instances of conflict. they had time to sew their balls... :wink:

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

if the soldiers made up their own cartridges, they had time to sew patches around balls. anyone who has ever been a soldier knows the mantra-"hurry up and wait!!". soldiers life is long periods of normalcy punctuated by brief instances of conflict. they had time to sew their balls... :wink:

soldiers were issued pre measured paper cartridges from an armory. they carried them in a leather cartridge pouch with a wooden insert that was drilled to accept the paper cartridges.

 

[Stophel]

I can't imagine anything more being necessary than a quick knot around the extra bit of patching protruding above the ball. Can't be that difficult or time consuming. :idunno:

 

[Artificer]

if the soldiers made up their own cartridges, they had time to sew patches around balls. anyone who has ever been a soldier knows the mantra-"hurry up and wait!!". soldiers life is long periods of normalcy punctuated by brief instances of conflict. they had time to sew their balls... :wink:

soldiers were issued pre measured paper cartridges from an armory. they carried them in a leather cartridge pouch with a wooden insert that was drilled to accept the paper cartridges.

That was generally the most common method during the UnCivil War and to a lesser extent during the Mexican War - where most cartridges initially came prepared for the soldiers to use. However in the Mexican War and earlier periods, it was common for the Artillery to be placed in charge of powder, lead and molds, balls, special cartridge paper, cartridge forms, powder measures, etc. AND make cartridges "in the field" under the direction of Artillery Officers and/or at least Artillery NCO's - when more cartridges were needed. This because the Artillery was properly seen as having the most experience with safely transporting and keeping powder. Oh, they also normally kept the prepared cartridges (when those were available) and issued them to the Infantry as ordered/needed.

Gus

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

That was generally the most common method during the UnCivil War and to a lesser extent during the Mexican War - where most cartridges initially came prepared for the soldiers to use. However in the Mexican War and earlier periods, it was common for the Artillery to be placed in charge of powder, lead and molds, balls, special cartridge paper, cartridge forms, powder measures, etc. AND make cartridges "in the field" under the direction of Artillery Officers and/or at least Artillery NCO's - when more cartridges were needed. This because the Artillery was properly seen as having the most experience with safely transporting and keeping powder. Oh, they also normally kept the prepared cartridges (when those were available) and issued them to the Infantry as ordered/needed.

Gus

interesting. what responsibilities did the artillery have in preparing their own munitions? ie preparing powder charge bags, canister shot creation, casting cannon balls etc?

 

[Artificer]

Most artillery rounds were Iron and the Artillery was issued them; whether solid shot, canister, grape shot or later on exploding shot. The Artillery did not cast their own balls or shot, generally speaking, as Iron required a large furnace/factory to cast the projectiles.

I have not studied the Artillery near as much as Infantry, but imagine they were issued powder charge bags and they filled them themselves in the early period, but were issued with powder charges in bags later on and especially during the UnCivil War.

Gus

 

[coloradoclyde]

I suspect some would be more skilled at it than others, and would trade or barter their services to the less adept....
Soldier's were often assigned "busy " work to keep them occupied and out of trouble.