Wild inaccuracy with CVA .50

[ugly old guy]

Bump your powder charge up a mite.
My .50 cal. CVA "Frontier" rifle shot best with a .490 PRB in front of 110 grains FFg or 140 grain Fg black powder, or 120 grains by volume Pyrodex CTG. (all three loads gave the same accuracy.)

I don't recall the exact patching or lube I used.
I think it was CVA branded pre-cut pillow ticking, and whatever recipe CVA lube they marketed back between 1986 and 1989.

With the .50 "Frontier" rifle, 1 inch diameter broom sticks at 100 yards were an easy kill.
(so also with the .45 caliber CVA "Kentucky" rifle I had back then.)
(both rifles used the non-adjustable sights that came in the kits.)

 

[Carbon 6]

Here's the manual if anyone needs it.
https://cva.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Side-lock.pdf

 

[Dixieshedhunter]

You could use an over powder wad too. If the patches are cutting you'll be all over. I had to rebarrel a CVA that had been corroded by 20 years of pyrodex.


Pete Davis

 

[Frontier's]

You mean 20 years of improper cleaning.

 

[Dixieshedhunter]

You tell 'em.


Pete Davis

 

[Carbon 6]

Wait till ya see what Black MZ does after 20 years, if you don't treat it like it's Pyrodex

 

[Frontier's]

in 20 years, black mz will be nothing but a faded memory seeing how it is no longer made.

 

[Carbon 6]

I'm sure It will be be back someday, it has a way of popping up.

 

[Sinner]

After skimming through this thread, did I miss whether or not the rate of twist was disclosed on this rifle? I've found that my CVA barrels with 1:66 twist shoot better with a higher powder charge than I can shoot well in other rifles with 1:48 twist while using a patch and ball.

 

[buford87]

After skimming through this thread, did I miss whether or not the rate of twist was disclosed on this rifle? I've found that my CVA barrels with 1:66 twist shoot better with a higher powder charge than I can shoot well in other rifles with 1:48 twist while using a patch and ball.

I have a slow twist C V A mtn rifle, I suppose I need to bump up my powder charge since I am shooting 60 grains of FFFg goex. I am still working on the best load but I need to keep this in mind.............watch yer top knot.............

 

[ChrisPer]

Its a slow twist, one in 66" seems right.
I remember my introduction to muzzleloading, my second rifle was a CVA .50 I bought in the Northern Territory, Darwin, which is a bit wild west.
I loaded up the basic recommended starting load, a grain for every hundredth of inch - fifty grains. (I got my basics from Guns& Ammo magazine and the like). I fired.
Every eye on the range swivelled toward me.
"WHat are you doing, BOY?? Load it up till it crackles.
So I did.
Eventually it sounded like a .303 going off.(Thats a 30-ought-six equivalent, for those who havent fired a 303). That was 120 grains of FFF.
I went off and read the Black Powder Handbook. (Was that Phil Spangenberger? Can't remember now).
Turns out I overloaded the upper safe limit by a factor of 40%.
We have been loading down for BP shortage, it costs us $100 per kilo IF we can get it. I always had more bang than others on the line; maybe I need to try cranking it harder again.

 

[Britsmoothy]

80 GRN in a .50 should be in the zone.

 

[Desperate Lee]

One rule of thumb was caliber times 1 1/2 according to the old gurus. Check with Dr5x and confirm.
45 x 1 1/2 = 67.5
50 x 1 1/2 = 75.0
54 x 1 1/2 = 81.0
Good starting points? I really cant say just adding my $.02 worth.

 

[ugly old guy]

One rule of thumb was caliber times 1 1/2 according to the old gurus. Check with Dr5x and confirm.
45 x 1 1/2 = 67.5
50 x 1 1/2 = 75.0
54 x 1 1/2 = 81.0
Good starting points? I really cant say just adding my $.02 worth.

Depends on the powder granulation.
For FFFFg, I wouldn't want to use more than 0.5 grains or so per caliber - if that much.
For FFg, 1.5 grains per caliber sounds about right for the maxinum charge.
FFg and Fg can be loaded heavier without excessive pressures since it burns slower.
In my .50 CVA Frontier rifle, 140 grains Fg gave good accuracy, and showed zero signs of over pressures.
The hammer wasn't blown back to half cock or full cock, I still had to remove the caps from the nipples, etc.
With FFg I could go 2.5 grains to 2.6 grains per caliber, with no issues.
Same held true for my .45 caliber CVA "Kentucky" rifle I had back then.
I shot very little (if any) FFFg. or Pyrodex "P" grade powders. I used FFg or Fg, even in my (Reproduction) "Remington 1858 New Army" revolver.
I've never owned any FFFFg powder.

 

[ChrisPer]

Depends on the powder granulation.
For FFFFg, I wouldn't want to use more than 0.5 grains or so per caliber - if that much.
For FFg, 1.5 grains per caliber sounds about right for the maxinum charge.
FFg and Fg can be loaded heavier without excessive pressures since it burns slower.
In my .50 CVA Frontier rifle, 140 grains Fg gave good accuracy, and showed zero signs of over pressures.
The hammer wasn't blown back to half cock or full cock, I still had to remove the caps from the nipples, etc.
With FFg I could go 2.5 grains to 2.6 grains per caliber, with no issues.
Same held true for my .45 caliber CVA "Kentucky" rifle I had back then.
I shot very little (if any) FFFg. or Pyrodex "P" grade powders. I used FFg or Fg, even in my (Reproduction) "Remington 1858 New Army" revolver.
I've never owned any FFFFg powder.

Verrry interesting. I am going to try some Holy Black, and raise the charge - on the theory that the balls may need more spin rpm.
I cleaned the bore with carby cleaner, looking for grunge down there. Maybe, but I always clean with HOT water anyway.
I got Loc-tite, for the set trigger adjustment, and re-set that. Then polished off the sharpnesses in the screw head that attract the fingers, cleaned it and blued it with cold blue.
I filed the sides of the rearsight notch, and blued that too.
I acquired an endoscope to see if I can see the condition of the bore. It will be useful for more bores I am sure!

 

[Britsmoothy]

Verrry interesting. I am going to try some Holy Black, and raise the charge - on the theory that the balls may need more spin rpm.
I cleaned the bore with carby cleaner, looking for grunge down there. Maybe, but I always clean with HOT water anyway.
I got Loc-tite, for the set trigger adjustment, and re-set that. Then polished off the sharpnesses in the screw head that attract the fingers, cleaned it and blued it with cold blue.
I filed the sides of the rearsight notch, and blued that too.
I acquired an endoscope to see if I can see the condition of the bore. It will be useful for more bores I am sure!

You forgot to to polish the crown !

 

[rp77469]

I have a CVA Mt. Rifle with thousands of rounds through it. I shoots well with 70g 3f or 80g 2f, 0.016 ticking and .490 round ball. Somewhere in the vicinity of that load should be a sweet spot for yours.

 

[Dibbuk]

I recently had a similar problem: A rifle that was consistent, started throwing shots all over the target. After checking everything else, I discovered the front sight had worked loose. I tightened the front sight, and got my consistency back.

 

[ugly old guy]

I can't edit my post, for some reason.
The manual for my sidelock Thompson Center Hawken gives a maximum charge of 100 to 110Grains FFg shooting conicals depending on weight.

Round ball is 50 to w110 grains FFg.

 

[ChrisPer]

I recently had a similar problem: A rifle that was consistent, started throwing shots all over the target. After checking everything else, I discovered the front sight had worked loose. I tightened the front sight, and got my consistency back.

I had my flintlock start throwing wild shots, and told myself I hadn't changed anything. Then I realised I had been using biggish patches and folding them over the ball to reduce bruising with the short starter. That meant they were not letting the balls fly free of the patch at the muzzle!