Will the bottom fall out of the custom build business?

[smo]

A lot of the Gentleman that I’ve shot with has done exactly that..
Donated their items too the Club and members bid on them in a live auction, with the proceeds going too the Club…

At least they had the satisfaction knowing their items went too like minded people and not a pawn shop or the landfill..

 

[Uncle Miltie]

this says it all. "it’s a hobby, not a way of life "...its time everyone figured that out for themselves and realize that in 20 yrs we will be lucky if anyone is shooting ML,BP etc or anything for that matter. Also, only those with large amounts of disposable income will be having anything "custom" built and then only a few pieces. I'm sorry, but there isn't a firearm in the world that I would pay $5 grand for. Sorry, not happening. I have owned over 400 firearms in my life, bought & sold, still have a decent number. I have one or two modern ones that are close to the $5K mark because of the build and glass etc. I have three ML's built by well known, good ,reputable builders, Brad Emig, C Edwards , Brumwell etc. I would not pay $5 grand for any of them. I see people on this site buying and selling ML's for $1500 to 2500 all the time. Did you ever think that is a sizable amount of money for many people in todays world? So, we sit here with all our toys, cars, boats, watches etc ML's , multiple firearms, yada yada yada, #A then wonder why the world is going down the toilet, when a good portion of the country is struggling to pay the utilities and eat? Yes, I think that the custom ML is gong the way of the Dodo....sooner than we think. When you can get a Kibler kit, that will build a rifle for $1500 bucks that any normal person would be proud of?, why would you want more? Just because you can? pls refer to #A.

More to life and muzzleloading than Kibler kit rifles. It's my money, I work hard for it and I'll spend it on whatever I want. And I won't judge others on how they spend their money....

 

[vintovka]

If it is truly dying out..? Would Kibler and others put so much investment capitol in something they thought they were going to lose..?
CNC equipment is not cheap or all the other stuff they have purchased. But yet they keep expanding their product line. JMHO

$1k+ Kit that many with less than expert skills can turn into a $2k+ future investment? This may be also affecting the custom rifle business as well.

 

[Des52]

Rural Pennsylvania seems to be the Mecca of muzzleloading alright, but the problem is that I gotta drive through places like Illinois and/or Michigan just to get there. Doesn't seem to be much in the way rendezvous and such in Wisconsin.

Just google Wisconsin rendezvous. I found three close too me and when they where held.

 

[Thumper7]

I got a chuckle out of the term, "lazy turds"

He isn't wrong.

 

[J. David]

Regarding the ease of the Kibler kits, I think it has opened up a whole lot more opportunities for less skilled folks out there to get into the sport for less investment or wait. I am not sure how many have been sold, but the majority that I have seen are simply done with no engraving or carving. I wonder if 250 years from now if our followers will have to wonder why the rifles 500 years earlier were more ornate than the later ones? will they wonder if we got lazy or less skilled?

 

[Dartwick]

The problem in this conversation is some people are thinking in terms of "investment."
The price of these guns new is based on material costs and work put into them.
The resale value may simply be signifigantly lower in most cases.
Its this way in other hobbies such as modern fire arms and traditional archery(in both these hobbies there voluminous closets all across the country full of like new items that can never be sold for what they originally cost.)

Buy custom flintlocks because you like to shoot them or buy them because they look nice on your wall. If you are concerned about where they eventually go - either give them away or make a will.

 

[NorthFork]

I love the custom guns but not waiting 5 years for the builder I want that wants almost a thousand bucks of my money to wait, another wants 60% up front, the myth of the “ must have” is getting replaced by kits that I can add a patch box, little bit of inlay and have an accurate rifle for about 1500 bucks, it’s a hobby, not a way of life and I can’t justify waiting years when I might be dead by then!

This! I got screwed hard by a then famous and popular builder over a decade ago. Cost me thousands and no gun to show for it. The only 'customs' I have bought since have been from TOTW and LCS offerings. Since I can return these firearms un-shot if I deem them unsuitable. Only costs me shipping both ways. I will NEVER again trust ANYONE to build ANYTHING for me firearm related.

 

[NorthFork]

this says it all. "it’s a hobby, not a way of life "...its time everyone figured that out for themselves and realize that in 20 yrs we will be lucky if anyone is shooting ML,BP etc or anything for that matter. Also, only those with large amounts of disposable income will be having anything "custom" built and then only a few pieces. I'm sorry, but there isn't a firearm in the world that I would pay $5 grand for. Sorry, not happening. I have owned over 400 firearms in my life, bought & sold, still have a decent number. I have one or two modern ones that are close to the $5K mark because of the build and glass etc. I have three ML's built by well known, good ,reputable builders, Brad Emig, C Edwards , Brumwell etc. I would not pay $5 grand for any of them. I see people on this site buying and selling ML's for $1500 to 2500 all the time. Did you ever think that is a sizable amount of money for many people in todays world? So, we sit here with all our toys, cars, boats, watches etc ML's , multiple firearms, yada yada yada, #A then wonder why the world is going down the toilet, when a good portion of the country is struggling to pay the utilities and eat? Yes, I think that the custom ML is gong the way of the Dodo....sooner than we think. When you can get a Kibler kit, that will build a rifle for $1500 bucks that any normal person would be proud of?, why would you want more? Just because you can? pls refer to #A.

100% agree!

 

[NorthFork]

This is a rural area and there is no dearth of younger people at the various gun clubs. That said, they seem more interested in modern unmentionables. The AR's, semi auto pistols and such. Although they show up to bone up on their skills with bolt actions and semi auto shotguns as the fall hunting seasons approach.
Even though kids routinely take off from school for firearms deer season, they do not seem to do so for primitive, neither bow nor muzzle loader.

Yes this is true. There are plenty of younger folks who are getting into shooting for self defense. But not hunting and certainly not trad muzzleloading. Maybe an inline IF they hunt. But not a perc. cap or flintlock. Hunting, trapping, to a certain degree fishing, and trad muzzleloaders are dying sports.

 

[NorthFork]

Rural Pennsylvania seems to be the Mecca of muzzleloading alright, but the problem is that I gotta drive through places like Illinois and/or Michigan just to get there. Doesn't seem to be much in the way rendezvous and such in Wisconsin.

There are plenty of rendezvous in central IL and IN. Sadly they are advertised as well as they should be!

 

[NorthFork]

Six pages and the above post said it best in only nine words.

I'm a craftsman and a tinkerer through and through.

I live to build things. Guns, furniture, ceramics, home repairs and I'm the only person in my family and extended family that knows how to work with their hands. I've spent 45 years applying my trade and I have a fully stocked workshop that would make any tinkerer proud.

When I'm stuffed in the ground the people who knew me best are going to bring in large dumpsters and take everything to a landfill. They won't even bother selling it to make money.

The only thing that gives me solace is that I'll be dead and I won't see it happen. Saddens me just typing this.

For those of you at the end of your life, forget about the money. Find people or organizations that will truly appreciate your tools and guns and GIVE THEM AWAY if need be.

I'm sorry if I brought folks down with this post. Have a nice day.

Sadly this will be the reality for most of us. I have NO ONE to leave anything to. Rifles worth thousands will go to the trash. Actually the collection is likely worth nearly 100,000 dollars. Modern pistols, rifles, shotguns, trad. pistols, fowlers, and rifles + associated ammo and accoutrements. Heck it might be worth more now that I think about it. The old lady will keep a pistol or two and a shotgun. The rest will be...............

 

[NorthFork]

A lot of the Gentleman that I’ve shot with has done exactly that..
Donated their items too the Club and members bid on them in a live auction, with the proceeds going too the Club…

At least they had the satisfaction knowing their items went too like minded people and not a pawn shop or the landfill..

This actually a fantastic idea! Thanks!

 

[waksupi]

$1k+ Kit that many with less than expert skills can turn into a $2k+ future investment? This may be also affecting the custom rifle business as well.

I've also seen people who can turn $1000 in parts into a fine $400 rifle.

 

[vintovka]

I've also seen people who can turn $1000 in parts into a fine $400 rifle.

Same with completed rifles!!!!

 

[DuncNZ]

I think the Kibler kits will hurt the high end gun builders. Why would anyone want to contract a builder to build you a custom gun for $1500 ( and up ) and wait a year or so to get it when you can order a Kibler kit for $1200. and build it yourself.

You have to wait 2-3 weeks to get your kit that can build in a weekend or two with minimal tools required. You'll have a rifle that is well build by yourself with top notch parts you can pass down to your children.

It doesn't get much better than that.

Kibler makes a limited range of very nice rifles , there still many out there for custom gunmakers to make , eg: Hawken's , trade guns , smooth rifles , muskets , etc

 

[DuncNZ]

You still have to feed your ML , from what I see on this forum there seems to be a shortage of black powder , caps , flints and bullet moulds in the USA and also in the rest of the world . High prices and non availability could put off any one thinking about starting ML shooting .

 

[vintovka]

Kibler makes a limited range of very nice rifles , there still many out there for custom gunmakers to make , eg: Hawken's , trade guns , smooth rifles , muskets , etc

Many have not mentally caught up with the severe damage inflation has, and continues to, inflict on us. I still see folks selling nice finished rifles for the cost of a kibler kit. Few have a true feeling for the value of a dollar right now.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Younger generations have no interest in traditional muzzleloaders, and the customer base will eventually dry up.

how can young people get interested in ML when old guys buy up everything they would need to shoot the rifles if even rifles could be found

 

[david w]

Even though a Kibler will cost $1,130 for plain maple, or cherry + shipping, they are excellent rifles! I would choose cherry over plain maple. If you want to go with the extra fancy maple, you can wind up with some really beautiful wood. A Kibler kit is very simple to complete. Reasons I'm in favor of Kibler is their CNC Ketland locks (these are perhaps the best locks on the market), CNC machined double set triggers, and other things, such as a CNC controlled stock. I built my first rifle from a Pecatonica stock, and believe me, it was a chore for a newby. Putting a Kibler kit together is a breeze! Hard to screw up! On the lock area, their parts are made of higher quality steel than the imports, and will last much longer. Of course, it's your budget, not mine. I forgot to add, The SMR has swamped barrels. My .36 caliber weighs 7.3 lbs. A .45 will be a tad lighter.