Williams receiver sights?

[Walks with fire]

PA recently approved peep sights for our flintlock season. I am interested in the forums opinions on the Williams WGRS receiver peep sight. I would be putting it on a 50 caliber carbine length barrel with the intent of removing the aperture for a ghost ring effect for hunting deer. Are these good sights to use for hunting or would the open sights be just as fast and accurate.

I am thinking of mounting it at the very end of the barrel (drill/tap) right over the powder charge. As long as I don't tap any deeper than what the sight taps are for the original open sights it should be safe I think. Any opinions on that??? I don't want a tang mounted sight.

What do you guys think. Would a peep be faster and more accurate or should I stay with regular open sights. Would it be safe to put a couple of tap holes over the charge area if I don't go very deep?

 

[Phillip Allen]

Someone makes a tang extension for such a sight...get it close to your eye. The top mounted sights are a bit too far away. What sort of muzzle loader do you shoot?

I can keep a 2 inch groop (10 shots) in a retired garrison rifle with battle apeture sights...I like em

 

[paulvallandigham]

For the peep sight to be effective, it should be within 5 inches of your eye. The ghost rings approach to a hunting peep sight is excellent, and very accurate.

 

[playfarmers]

I had the Lyman tang sight on my Deerstalker, and found it very accurate for target shooting. But I had a tough time getting used to it for hunting, and found I was better off using the sights that came with my rifle. I have been using open sights for 43 years now and they work well. I have found that the white bead up front and a U in the back work best, or a set of fiber optics, like my wife uses.

 

[eelclam]

I have always heard that open sights are faster but as for me i disagree. I might get on target more quickly with open sights but good sight alignment takes more cocentration TIME. With a ghost ring mounted one the barrel as far back as possible i can get on target quickly and sight alignment is automatic. I have used square post and firesight front sights and for target the post is my choice but for hunting the fire sight is imho better. I think on average most shooter will group better with peep sights.

 

[BrownBear]

I've got one on my Lyman, plus something over a dozen on an assortment of lever rifles. Obviously I love them and follow your approach of removing the aperture for a ghostring effect. It's got to be really close to your eye for that effect to work, however. If you ignore the rear sight and only look at the front sight, it's about as fast shooting as a shotgun. Your eye will naturally center the front sight in the rear, explaining why it's so fast.

I'd be pretty reluctant to drill and tap it into the barrel however, not just because it will move it too far from your eye, but also because you're messing with steel in the portion of the barrel with highest pressures.

Instead I'd remove the tang and take it into the gunshop with you and have a closer look at the Williams tang mount, or especially the TC version. The TC is smaller and will certainly be easier to mount in all likelihood.

You will almost certainly have to drill and tap your tang for mounting either, but I'd have no problems with that compared to doing it on the barrel. It will bring the sight back close to your eye where it belongs. There's some possibility you will have to make a tapered shim to mount between the sight and tang to adjust height or angle, but if you're capable of drilling and tapping a barrel or a tang, then the shim will be really easy for you to make.

 

[silverfox]

Definitely go with the peepsite. How you mount it is up to you and you have several good methods given to you already. IMHO go with the firesite for you front site for hunting it will let you have a few minutes more hunting time and will be faster to pick up in low light conditions.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[eelclam]

The williams sight is for mounting on the barrel flat but lyman and tc have tang mounted peeps that require drilling and tapping an extra hole in the tang i have one that i on a New Englander that works great i did have to get a taller front sight.

I dont think drilling and tapping the barrel at the breach is a problem so long you mind the depth. The longer sight radius should make the peep more effective than mounting it forward.

 

[Bountyhunter]

I dont use peeps on my ML's but I have peeps on some cartridge rifles. The M1 carbine has a fine peep and front sight combination that is easy to use and accurate. Same for a couple others, but I just got a Ranch Rifle that has a Ghost ring and it is just about worthless to me. It is the new model with the M1 type of front sight and the huge ghost ring rear. I find it very inaccurate. For me, the smaller the peep the better.

 

[Hunter66]

Are you sure about the use of peep sights here in PA? I know that the 2006-2007 reg. book states iron open or v notch sights. I didn't see anything in the newspaper about it after the Game Commission meetings. Removing the aperature and using it as a ghost ring leaves an awfully big hole to see through. I would think accuracy with a hole that big would suffer. Ghost ring sights are for fast targeting not precision shooting. I sure would love a peep for hunting with, I hope you are correct.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If your peep sight is mounted so it is no more than 5 inches from your eye, the eye automatically centers the front site in the center of the ghost ring, or smaller peep insert, if you use it. The ghost ring works as well in hunting situations, particularly because it allows a hunter to see his sights and put them on his deer in low light conditions, ( dawn and dusk). You do not need to have a narrow peep for the eye to perform the function of centering the frong site. It only has to be close enough to the eye. To see the front sight, the human eye has to focus on " infinity ", as the front sight is usually far enough in front of the face to allow this.

Accuracy of peep sight shooting is related to the size of the front sight " bead ", in relation to the distance to the target, and the size of the target. Peep sights are still iron sights, and they are not long range shooting propositions on game. That does not mean they can't do good work at 200 yds, and even out to 600 yds. However, there are few shooters who can reliably shoot tight groops beyond 200 yds with a peep sight, no matter how small the diameter of the peep is, or how small the front bead is. We do have some amazing work done today on target ranges with iron sights at very long ranges. But, I have not met any of those shooters who would think it ethical to try a shot at any game animal at the ranges where they shoot targets( at 500 and 600 yds.) For one thing, they don't have wind flags out to help them time their shots, as they do on the range.

Remember that most deer are still shot at much less then 100 yds, and probably more at under 50 yds, than between 50 and 100 yds. The problem is not hitting the deer in a vital area at those ranges; the problem is being able to see your sights early in the morning, or late in the afternoon, in an overcast sky. The ghost sight works the best under those conditions, and for those shooters who learn to use them, the new florescent sight inserts do give those shooters a few more minutes of visibility than a tradional bead front sight will.

There are some good and bad florescing front sight beads. Some are fuzzy around the edges, and make accurate shooting difficult at best. Others are mounted in a tube, so that you see a well defined edge and a colored dot on the target. Those work very well. Combine that with a ghost ring rear peep sight, and I think you improve your chances of shooting your deer.

 

[tg]

I would think a scope of low power would be a better choice for a fast accurate pull up on a deer.

 

[ronrryan]

There used to be a front sight called a "sourdough" which had a white or gold insert at a 45 degree angle to take overhead light in the woods. Combined with a peep sight with the aperture removed this was an extremely fast sight when deer hunting at woods ranges. I used these sights for years and never had any trouble with accuracy, but then I never sighted in any further away than 100 yards, often 50 yards, and the woods shots, as Paul has pointed out, were almost always less than 50 yards. I never had the slightest problem with just focusing on the front sight and ignoring the (barely visible) rear sight ring, but --as they say--YMMV. Good smoke, ron in Venice

 

[Hamourkiller]

I have used williams peeps on my lever guns for years and have the T/C peep on a Renegade with a .58 GM drop in. Orifice removed using screw hole as ghost peep.

I find that taking a classic 6 o-clock hold on the bullseye works grate for target shooting. Use the large 25 yd pistol targets so you can see the bull at longer range.

When hunting in timber, paint the front bead or post off white (non glare). When the deer comes by place the white spot in the center of your kill zone and let him have it. The T/C with the GM barrel is the longest sight radius I have shot and it is much easier to use than the shorter lever guns I have fired in the past.

Key to any open sighted gun is to shoot, shoot and shoot some more.

I love scopes, but they ruin the lines and easy portability of some rifles and they are a pain when it comes to rain.

You will love the peeps in my humble opinion.

Hank

 

[Slamfire]

I prefer the wide shallow V like the British Express sights for fast work, but peeps are pretty good too. You can mount 'em way out on the barrel. The Marines did that on their Springfields between the wars and the Arisaka Type 99s had a similar arrangement. They are plenty accurate that way, but need a lot of light or a very big hole. :winking:

 

[RedFeather]

You will want a larger hole in the peep for hunting. If you look at some of the old tang sights on guns from the 20's and 30's you will see they are pretty simple. The larger target disks will obscure a lot of the area around the target. If you do want to try a target style, the Merit adjustable is a good choice.

 

[sidelock]

I have the Williams peep mounted at the top of the tang on my T/C .50 Hawken. Took a little smithing, but it works great. DO NOT DRILL the bbl.----- high pressure area -- safety you know. I love peeps but I have been shooting them for about 60 yrs. Once harvested an 8 pt WT at 85 yrds running flat out with my .50. Love this rifle. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Walks with fire]

Hunter66,

I dont' know for sure yet because I have not seen it in writting but the PA Hunting Forum group seem to think it will be legal for the 2007 season.

There is no way I would put a scope on a flintlock or a pistol for that matter. I tried one on a lever action one time and it just ruins the balance and handleing qualities of the firearm. I do use them on bolt action centerfires and don't hunt with them much anymore because it's just too easy.

I like my flintlocks and prefer them for hunting. I may just put the peep in the standard rear sight area with the aperture removed it may work ok. I am just kicking the idea around at this point and have never even looked thru a peep sight arangement yet.

 

[tg]

If you do not have "vision" problems, open iron sights will do you very well, and would even be a traditional way of hunting if that sort of thing interests you.

 

[Mad Professor]

I've not used the Williams peeps but have a couple of Lyman SML 57s on either TC or Lyman rifles. I really like them, they have click adjustments for windage/elevation, removable apetures with different size holes, or the option of no apeture at all for low light hunting.