Wondering about the wads...

[Danny Ray Milligan]

I'll bet I've watched at least 200 videos on muzzle loaders on youtube, in the last three months.
I've noticed that almost NOBODY is putting the lubricated wads in between their powder load and their ball. I bought about four hundred of the things, and I'm starting to wonder if they are even necessary? The ones that DO use the wads seem to have a higher incidence of misfires, so I'm wondering if the lube in the wad is tainting the powder charge? Does anyone make un-lubed wads, so I can this hypothesis, or should I just use the dry cleaning patches I bought, to separate the charge from the ball?

I had also noticed, on the cap and ball revolvers, that many people would plug each chamber with a daub of some kind of grease (some actually used actual traditional Crisco, lol!). They said this was to prevent chainfires, but if the ball is leaving a ring of lead every time you seat it, doesn't that mean it's sealing the chamber and sparks can't get past it?

 

[French Colonial]

So......
We ASSUME that you are using the lubricated wads in a rifle, personally I have tested them and in that particular rifle on that particular day they were not as accurate as a patched ball only, others here have had good results using wads. Only testing will tell in your gun. In mine on that day the wads were sticking to the back of the patch.

Commercially available lubricated wads do not have enough lube to degrade the powder charge to any appreciable amount, the misfires you observed could have been from a myriad of things but if they were store bought wads, that was not it. Just use the patch and ball and test that. And yes unlubricated wads are available or you can cut your own as many here do using a wad punch.

On a revolver some do put a dab of grease over the ball to prevent chain fires but as you suggest I just use a slightly oversize ball that shaves a small lead ring and have never had a chain fire. I have used the grease over ball method before and..
1. Found out it made a greasy mess of the revolver.
2. Almost all of the grease was blown out of the adjacent chambers when the gun first fired anyway.

Some speculate that chain fires have also occurred when the flash from the nipple of the firing chamber has entered the adjacent nipples, the jury is still out on that one.

And you bought 400 wads!!!! what are you a hoarder!!!! Sorry that was from another thread

 

[Danny Ray Milligan]

So......
We ASSUME that you are using the lubricated wads in a rifle, personally I have tested them and in that particular rifle on that particular day they were not as accurate as a patched ball only, others here have had good results using wads. Only testing will tell in your gun. In mine on that day the wads were sticking to the back of the patch.

Commercially available lubricated wads do not have enough lube to degrade the powder charge to any appreciable amount, the misfires you observed could have been from a myriad of things but if they were store bought wads, that was not it. Just use the patch and ball and test that. And yes unlubricated wads are available or you can cut your own as many here do using a wad punch.

On a revolver some do put a dab of grease over the ball to prevent chain fires but as you suggest I just use a slightly oversize ball that shaves a small lead ring and have never had a chain fire. I have used the grease over ball method before and..
1. Found out it made a greasy mess of the revolver.
2. Almost all of the grease was blown out of the adjacent chambers when the gun first fired anyway.

Some speculate that chain fires have also occurred when the flash from the nipple of the firing chamber has entered the adjacent nipples, the jury is still out on that one.

And you bought 400 wads!!!! what are you a hoarder!!!! Sorry that was from another thread

Well, being new to all this, I tried to buy equal amounts of every thing that the forums indicated were necessary to shoot the gun. I bought 400 round balls, 400 primers and 400 wads for the two rifles, and 200 round balls, 200 #10 caps, and 200 wads for the CVA 1858 Army pistol (which wasn't even CVA, I later found out, but imported from Armi San Marcos, out of Italy.)
Many surprises lay in store for me, during my recent adventures in BP weapons, lol! For example, I paid $60 plus tax and shipping for the 50 cal balls, $40 for the Primers (400 CSI 209's) and about the same for the wads, giving me a total cost of .35 per shot. OUCH!!!
The .44's were $25 for 200 balls, $10 for the wads, but $100 for 200 #10 caps, giving me a cost of $1.48 per shot... WTH MAN?!?

In my research, I discovered that the costs of Muzzle-loading guns and supplies for them have doubled (or more) since the current Administration/Regime took power in 2021, but haven't been able to ascertain whether this is due to a shortage intentionally caused by the Administration trying to deter people from buying ANY kind of gun, or simply the laws of supply and demand. In 2020, you could buy a Traditions Buckstalker XT for under $100 at Walmart, now they seem to average about $330 for the same piece, at all the online sites. The same increases seem to apply across the board for muzzle-loading weapons, whereas (on Gunbroker), cartridge weapons such as 9 mm, .380's, various shotguns, etc., seem to be staying around the same prices, post-2020. The only possible corollary that I can see was Canada's raising prices of cigarettes to over $20 per pack, to discourage people from smoking. Are they deliberately jacking up ML prices to discourage us from buying weapons that are un-trackable and do not require FFL licenses?

Hmmmm....

 

[wiscoaster]

I wad between powder and ball with dry wadding made up of whatever. Tow performs best, in my experience. If I use lubed wadding that goes only on top of the ball.

 

[Brokennock]

I've used wads in a rifle with good success,,,, but not lubed, the patch holds the lube. They worked well enough that I was able to match the accuracy of a very difficult to load tight patch/ball combo that didn't use the wad with an easier to load slightly looser combo that used the wad.
Yes, wads of many types are available unlubed, in fact, be they wads or patches most here would recommended never buying them prelubed. Buy them dry and lube them or make your own and lube them.

Also,,, 200 YouTube videos? Your time could have been better spent on the range testing things for yourself.
Sorry, had to be said.
YouTube has some good information crumbs,,,, but has a whole lot of garbage that is well presented (and often more popular) but still garbage info.

 

[French Colonial]

I'll bet I've watched at least 200 videos on muzzle loaders on youtube, in the last three months.
I've noticed that almost NOBODY is putting the lubricated wads in between their powder load and their ball. I bought about four hundred of the things, and I'm starting to wonder if they are even necessary? The ones that DO use the wads seem to have a higher incidence of misfires, so I'm wondering if the lube in the wad is tainting the powder charge? Does anyone make un-lubed wads, so I can this hypothesis, or should I just use the dry cleaning patches I bought, to separate the charge from the ball?

I had also noticed, on the cap and ball revolvers, that many people would plug each chamber with a daub of some kind of grease (some actually used actual traditional Crisco, lol!). They said this was to prevent chainfires, but if the ball is leaving a ring of lead every time you seat it, doesn't that mean it's sealing the chamber and sparks can't get past it?

And another comment on the misfires...

Using the search button on the upper right and do a search for chambered breech, you will get an education for sure.

I do not own any chambered breech guns but I have seen several people struggle with them.

 

[longcruise]

I'll bet I've watched at least 200 videos on muzzle loaders on youtube, in the last three months.
I've noticed that almost NOBODY is putting the lubricated wads in between their powder load and their ball. I bought about four hundred of the things, and I'm starting to wonder if they are even necessary? The ones that DO use the wads seem to have a higher incidence of misfires, so I'm wondering if the lube in the wad is tainting the powder charge? Does anyone make un-lubed wads, so I can this hypothesis, or should I just use the dry cleaning patches I bought, to separate the charge from the ball?

I had also noticed, on the cap and ball revolvers, that many people would plug each chamber with a daub of some kind of grease (some actually used actual traditional Crisco, lol!). They said this was to prevent chainfires, but if the ball is leaving a ring of lead every time you seat it, doesn't that mean it's sealing the chamber and sparks can't get past it?

I have a contrary opinion on the use of wads under a patched ball but first, full disclosure, I've never tried it.

I'm pretty sure that wads under balls are a band aid for barrels with poor bore conditioning and/or poor crown conditions. I'm fastidious about bore conditioning and crown conditioning. I've had guns that destroyed patches and shot with poor accuracy. I fixed all of them with common crown improvements and firelapping.

I doubt that enough lube could be soaked into an over powder wad to contaminate a powder charge all the way to the point of ignition at the flash hole. Think one would have to pour lube into the bore to effect ignition. Ignition problems have their own causes but mostly related to buildup of crud in the Ignition channel due to careless wiping between shots or sometimes poorly constructed breaching systems.

As for revolvers, I have one and rarely shoot it. Find it a PITA to load and the shooting un rewarding to the point of boredom. But I do cover the loaded ball with lube cause it doesn't make sense, at least to me, to fire an un lubed projectile in any gun.

As stated above, beware of u toob. It's full of poor and inaccurate information.

For that matter, beware of this forum as well as the other ml forums. These are loaded with things that have stated and repeated the same things over and over until there is a huge catalog of inaccurate information that is known as "conventional wisdom". Some of it is pure gold. But some is honestly and sincerely offered pony pucky. The only way you can shake it all out is, as stated above, your own open minded approach to building your own experience base. Also known as "range time" So avoid taking everything you see here as fact, including what I tell you