You got it ALL wrong, son…

[Panama Red]

So, after a week of scouting the forum, reading every post I could about which flintlock kit to purchase, and what caliber I wanted, I settled on the Kibler SMR, in .36 caliber, and then, after much more reading, on barrel browning, and stock finishing, I promptly went on line and ordered a Traditions Kentucky flintlock… yeah, yeah, I know. The lock sucks, the wood sucks, the frizzen is soft. It ain’t even the caliber I wanted! They only have it in .45 and .50. But the more I read, the more I realized I didn’t want to learn how to brown a barrel, or finish a stock, on a 1500 dollar rifle. So, I tucked that money back in the envelope, ordered the Traditions for a butt ton less money, which will be nice as I experiment with stock color, and fake aging, etc. and then went to Powder Valley and ordered three pounds of FFF, and one pound of FFFF. Not sure how the ratio works on those two, but now I have some black coming. I had only used Pyrodex in my modern inline rifle.
I’ll keep you posted on how the build and finish goes. I’ll get 10% back from Muzzle-Loaders for posting on here about it… LOL! Like they have to pay me to talk about what I’m doing.

 

[Jason holgate]

You did good pilgrim now you can practice ....keep is posted

 

[Johnny Tremain]

You get what you pay for.

 

[Panama Red]

Yep. I get a rifle to practice browning a barrel and finishing a stock, without the worry of ruining a 1500 dollar rifle… I still got the Kibler money, and it will come home with me one day. I’m going to practice on this thing first. If it comes out looking like manure, imagine how happy I will be that I didn’t practice on a Kibler…

 

[Panama Red]

…had to go back and correct a ton of autocorrects there…

 

[Kansas Jake]

Doing it either way would have been okay. With your plan you will have at least two rifles. Not a bad way to go.

 

[DiMarco_Mercantile]

That was a great decision to go with the cheaper alternative to practice on. It gives you the opportunity to learn and mess up without ruining something expensive. I did the same thing, and it was worth it.

 

[HSmithTX]

Nothing wrong with the decision at all in my opinion and further in my opinion might be the wiser of the two choices you could have made, you will have some dump on this decision heavily but in the end it's your money and your decision and that's that.

 

[ord sgt]

Great decision. Start small and learn the how to's about kit building. You just might surprise yourself with the results.
I still have my first kit rifle. When I started, no one I knew had any idea of muzzle loaders. No internet. No one to ask for guidance. Just an antique rifle as a model. 40 years later, I finished the last rifle that I will build.

 

[Hawk54]

Smart idea. First time filing, fitting, sanding, staining, and finishing is a learning experience. You not only learn about how to do them but also what tools you will need. Rasps, files, punches, chisels, wood and metal sand paper, steel wool, stains, finishes, and such. If you don't like how something turns out you can redo it. If you screw the stock up on a much less expensive rifle it is far cheaper, easier, and faster to replace. A lot of good you tube instructional videos out there to help you each step.

A friend of mine recently bought four higher end kit guns that a guy had bought and tried to put together. He would totally screw up one and buy another and screw that one up. On number four he gave up and sold them to my friend who is a rifle builder for a fraction of what he paid for them. The guy should have started on a Traditions or bought an easier to assemble kit that didn't require higher skills like drilling holes for tang, lock, and tennon pins.

 

[billraby]

Drilling holes is a higher skill?

 

[MountainSmoke]

Nothing wrong with that at all. I have owned many traditions and cva muzzleloaders and they were perfectly serviceable.

 

[Hawk54]

Drilling holes is a higher skill?

For a totally new person to this kind of work it is. Drilling holes through the stock from one side to the other and having it line up perfectly so it goes through the metal barrel tennon squarely and comes out even on the other side of the stock is very daunting. The average person never does any of this type of work. Most don't have anything but a hand drill to do it. The guy I mentioned above had misaligned all the barrel pin holes on all four kits and the most of the screw and bolt holes. If you don't measure correctly you will miss the barrel tennon or the holes on each side won't be even. Now you have a messed up stock that has to be repaired.

 

[Panama Red]

Nothing wrong with the decision at all in my opinion and further in my opinion might be the wiser of the two choices you could have made, you will have some dump on this decision heavily but in the end it's your money and your decision and that's that.

They can dump on it all they want. I’m a big boy, lol. I’ll never understand that mindset though. I’ve got a very good friend that makes custom pocket knives. Incredible work. Has been on the cover of the big knife magazines. His bottom end pocket knife is $600, and they go WAY up from there. Do I look at the guys who don’t have a JT Clark custom knife in their pocket, and say, “Well, you get what you pay for…” Nope! My daily carry is a $14 Byrd, because I know I’m going to beat it to death, pry stuff with it, get sand all in it… is it as nice as a Clark? Nope, but it does what I need it to.
I’m looking at this kit that way. I need to learn how to finish a gun barrel and stock. I already know I’m going to have to do more inletting and modifications on this Traditions than I would on a Kibler. That’s why I bought it… to learn.
The other attitude I see on here a lot that I don’t understand is putting down on the guys who buy what they can afford to get in the hobby. I can remember the day that 400 dollars for a rifle was just out of the question. Man, things were tight. If all you can afford is an Old Timer pocket knife, get yourself an Old Timer and use the stew out of it.
Anyways, I appreciate the support from all you guys. I’ve spent hours on the forum reading posts and getting information. I have watched every video Jim Kibler has made that I can find this week, (along with every Traditions Kentucky video) to the point that my wife walks through the living room, rolls her eyes, huffs one time, and heads to her office to watch what she wants, LOL!
The guy makes a beautiful rifle, and one day, I will own a SMR in .36 caliber. And when I do, the finish is going to be gorgeous!

 

[Panama Red]

Drilling holes is a higher skill?

There was a much better point he was making. A dude sucked up 4 expensive kits…. So, what, 4 grand on the bottom end? Good friend of mine is an A&P mechanic. Incredible machinist. He can give you a doctorate level course on drilling holes, and don’t even start him in on cutting threads…

 

[Panama Red]

For a totally new person to this kind of work it is. Drilling holes through the stock from one side to the other and having it line up perfectly so it goes through the metal barrel tennon squarely and comes out even on the other side of the stock is very daunting. The average person never does any of this type of work. Most don't have anything but a hand drill to do it. The guy I mentioned above had misaligned all the barrel pin holes on all four kits and the most of the screw and bolt holes. If you don't mesure correctly you will miss the barrel tennon or the holes on each side won't be even. Now you have a messed up stock that has to be repaired.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[Panama Red]

Nothing wrong with that at all. I have owned many traditions and cva muzzleloaders and they were perfectly serviceable.

Thanks! I’m hoping this one is! I’m also hoping it turns out really nice!

 

[Panama Red]

Great decision. Start small and learn the how to's about kit building. You just might surprise yourself with the results.
I still have my first kit rifle. When I started, no one I knew had any idea of muzzle loaders. No internet. No one to ask for guidance. Just an antique rifle as a model. 40 years later, I finished the last rifle that I will build.

My first grandson is two now. I have a ‘65 F100 for him to drive to school when he turns 16 (as long as he is a motorhead, lol!) And hopefully, I can start him out in the world of flintlocks and all things black powder with this gun, when he’s ready.

 

[Panama Red]

That was a great decision to go with the cheaper alternative to practice on. It gives you the opportunity to learn and mess up without ruining something expensive. I did the same thing, and it was worth it.

I like hearing that! Thanks! This will definitely be a learning experience on wood staining.

 

[Panama Red]

Doing it either way would have been okay. With your plan you will have at least two rifles. Not a bad way to go.

Two? I’m a gun slut… if I get out of this with less than four it will be amazing!
Man, I really debated with myself on this. But what finalized the decision was actually Kiblers videos. Those rifles are incredible, and I REALLY don’t want to mess it up when I get it. I can wait. I’ve got this one to play with in the mean time.