Very stuck minie ball, tried everything having to pull the breech plug

[CaptainVane]

Step 1. Build backyard bonfire.
Step 2. Set barrel on top, muzzle down.
Step 3. Consume 6 pack while melted lead drips out barrel. Marshmallows optional.
Step 4. Research threads on how to re-brown barrel.

 

[M. De Land]

No way would I do that with an original from the civil war era… actually, I would not do this with any firearm I cared about in the least bi

Step 1. Build backyard bonfire.
Step 2. Set barrel on top, muzzle down.
Step 3. Consume 6 pack while melted lead drips out barrel. Marshmallows optional.
Step 4. Research threads on how to re-brown barrel.

I've had to melt lap slugs out of barrels that became stuck for one reason or another and it's no big deal. Barrel steel is normalized ( annealed) at the factory when button rifled to relieve stress. The temperatures for this range from 900 F. to 1200 F. degrees and lead will melt out at under 500 F. so there is no change to barrel steel when melting lead out of it at temperature below normalizing levels.
I usually do it with two propane torches played over the exterior until it runs out.
The trouble with driving it out is it tends to upset and wedge in even harder than the original cause for sticking.
I would be reluctant to do it in a bon fire where temperature could exceed normalizing temp.

 

[Ed C.]

After generating a 5 page thread with some of the best advice available it would be nice to get an update from the OP.

 

[Rich44]

I've had to melt lap slugs out of barrels that became stuck for one reason or another and it's no big deal. Barrel steel is normalized ( annealed) at the factory when button rifled to relieve stress. The temperatures for this range from 900 F. to 1200 F. degrees and lead will melt out at under 500 F. so there is no change to barrel steel when melting lead out of it at temperature below normalizing levels.
I usually do it with two propane torches played over the exterior until it runs out.
The trouble with driving it out is it tends to upset and wedge in even harder than the original cause for sticking.
I would be reluctant to do it in a bon fire where temperature could exceed normalizing temp.

What you do with your gun is your business. But a person just starting out with shooting a black powder gun and getting himself in this much of a problem does not need the advice of put a torch in each hand and melt it out. The fact that he has already been given the good advice of pulling the plug, which has been stated is easy is much better. It also has the byproduct of being able to see what is going wrong with a bird's eye view. Also think it is just stupid to recommend torching your gun, as that would take on fact that a knowledgeable person was going to be the worker. I and other mechanics could give a short cut hint for doing a job, but if you do not learn the basics first then you will be over your head. After all don't you think your not a newbie?

 

[wiscoaster]

After generating a 5 page thread with some of the best advice available it would be nice to get an update from the OP.

Yes, and along with loads of the best advice available, also a fairly considerable amount of derisive negativity; it would be no wonder if he's abandoned the thread.

 

[Bad Karma]

I've had to melt lap slugs out of barrels that became stuck for one reason or another and it's no big deal. Barrel steel is normalized ( annealed) at the factory when button rifled to relieve stress. The temperatures for this range from 900 F. to 1200 F. degrees and lead will melt out at under 500 F. so there is no change to barrel steel when melting lead out of it at temperature below normalizing levels.
I usually do it with two propane torches played over the exterior until it runs out.
The trouble with driving it out is it tends to upset and wedge in even harder than the original cause for sticking.
I would be reluctant to do it in a bon fire where temperature could exceed normalizing temp.

Yeah, other than lead melting temp being closer to 600 degrees by my thermometer I think you have a point. I’d be concerned about the finish if any and or anything attached to the barrel with solder and I really don’t think I’d recommend it to someone who’s had some difficulty with an antique rifle, especially since it’s his first go round and he couldn’t get a minie out with 60 grains of Pyrodex. I think there are other factors at play here and getting it into the hands of a competent smith seems like a prudent course of action.

 

[M. De Land]

What you do with your gun is your business. But a person just starting out with shooting a black powder gun and getting himself in this much of a problem does not need the advice of put a torch in each hand and melt it out. The fact that he has already been given the good advice of pulling the plug, which has been stated is easy is much better. It also has the byproduct of being able to see what is going wrong with a bird's eye view. Also think it is just stupid to recommend torching your gun, as that would take on fact that a knowledgeable person was going to be the worker. I and other mechanics could give a short cut hint for doing a job, but if you do not learn the basics first then you will be over your head. After all don't you think your not a newbie

Never advised not to remove the breech plug just said I've melted a number of stuck slugs out with no issue of barrel steel change or even barrel finish alteration. I am a schooled gunsmith and actually have done what I say a number of times and know it to work very well.
Driving upset stuck slugs out of a bore with a steel unprotected rod can and often does bugger bore lands so melting it out is far safer for the rifling.

 

[M. De Land]

Yeah, other than lead melting temp being closer to 600 degrees by my thermometer I think you have a point. I’d be concerned about the finish if any and or anything attached to the barrel with solder and I really don’t think I’d recommend it to someone who’s had some difficulty with an antique rifle, especially since it’s his first go round and he couldn’t get a minie out with 60 grains of Pyrodex. I think there are other factors at play here and getting it into the hands of a competent smith seems like a prudent course of action.

Yes, pure lead melts at 621.5 F, thank you. Don't know why I was thinking 500F. Any way it's not hot enough to ruin barrel steel or good bluing.

 

[NotDanielBoone]

I feel for the fellow with the stuck Minie, but you others have entertained me for a couple days. Any activity in life can be difficult if your knowledge level is "don't know what you don't know". I try to wade into those dark ponds, not dive.

 

[M. De Land]

I feel for the fellow with the stuck Minie, but you others have entertained me for a couple days. Any activity in life can be difficult if your knowledge level is "don't know what you don't know". I try to wade into those dark ponds, not dive.

That makes sense to learn as much as you can about any of these endeavors first but they all have an element of nuance that must be learned by actually doing it at some point and learning from trial and error the best method for personally employing ones strengths and avoiding their weaknesses.
Truth is one can do a job a hundred times successfully and really learn very little until a failure occurs that one must over come. Experience really is the best teacher but apprenticeships and/or schooling are advised in the beginning to avoid the most common errors.
That being said some of the best gun mechanics ever born were self taught usually as a side bar to some other vocation. Harry Pope learned machine operation as a bicycle mechanic and a few years at MIT didn't hurt anything either as he applied math learned there to figuring out his gain twist rifling and machinery to cut it.

 

[CaptainVane]

I've had to melt lap slugs out of barrels that became stuck for one reason or another and it's no big deal. Barrel steel is normalized ( annealed) at the factory when button rifled to relieve stress. The temperatures for this range from 900 F. to 1200 F. degrees and lead will melt out at under 500 F. so there is no change to barrel steel when melting lead out of it at temperature below normalizing levels.
I usually do it with two propane torches played over the exterior until it runs out.
The trouble with driving it out is it tends to upset and wedge in even harder than the original cause for sticking.
I would be reluctant to do it in a bon fire where temperature could exceed normalizing temp.

I was kidding, the marshmallow part didn’t give you a clue?

 

[LME]

@Eterry, that’s my theory, too. The minie is covering the vent.

OP, I will clear the bore for you and pin gauge for an exact measurement free of charge. Just take care of shipping.

I am thinking he has a hole through the bullet from trying to use a puller? This would make it harder to shoot out or pull out. This is no longer a job for a novice it appears.

 

[Ed C.]

That makes sense to learn as much as you can about any of these endeavors first but they all have an element of nuance that must be learned by actually doing it at some point and learning from trial and error the best method for personally employing ones strengths and avoiding their weaknesses.
Truth is one can do a job a hundred times successfully and really learn very little until a failure occurs that one must over come. Experience really is the best teacher but apprenticeships and/or schooling are advised in the beginning to avoid the most common errors.
That being said some of the best gun mechanics ever born were self taught usually as a side bar to some other vocation. Harry Pope learned machine operation as a bicycle mechanic and a few years at MIT didn't hurt anything either as he applied math learned there to figuring out his gain twist rifling and machinery to cut it.

For the sake of our firearms we have to know our limitations. To lure a novice into waters over his head is not really helpful. Unless he knows the risks he is taking and is willing to chalk up a ruined gun to a learning experience.

 

[Ponderosaman]

If a person ran hot wax behind the bullet, when it solidified you could try again with the grease gun.

 

[wiscoaster]

If a person ran hot wax behind the bullet, when it solidified you could try again with the grease gun.

That's a neat idea. Never thought of that. Should work.

 

[M. De Land]

For the sake of our firearms we have to know our limitations. To lure a novice into waters over his head is not really helpful. Unless he knows the risks he is taking and is willing to chalk up a ruined gun to a learning experience.

Once you've established beyond doubt that there is no powder charge that can be ignited there is no safer or easier way to remove a stuck slug than melting it out using a propane torch or two. You can't get a barrel hot enough with a hand held propane torch to harm it.

 

[Bad Karma]

I’ll leave this thread here. I received a message from the OP with photos showing the minie, his breech plug and the barrel. He found a local smith to remove the plug and the bullet. His private message will stay that way..

 

[Snooterpup]

I’ll leave this thread here. I received a message from the OP with photos showing the minie, his breech plug and the barrel. He found a local smith to remove the plug and the bullet. His private message will stay that way..

Bravo and a great pat on the back for him doing the right thing. I hope he’s not too put off by some of the ideas and comments. I wish him well and hope he’ll have a successful muzzleloader experience from now on.

 

[Ed C.]

Once you've established beyond doubt that there is no powder charge that can be ignited there is no safer or easier way to remove a stuck slug than melting it out using a propane torch or two. You can't get a barrel hot enough with a hand held propane torch to harm it.

This is what I was responding to, not the advice on melting out a slug, which BTW, I would not do. "That makes sense to learn as much as you can about any of these endeavors first but they all have an element of nuance that must be learned by actually doing it at some point and learning from trial and error the best method for personally employing ones strengths and avoiding their weaknesses." The part about trial and error....just saying a novice may not realize the magnitude of the error involved when being advised to do certain fixes. Anyway, all water under the bridge now as the OP has resolved his problem.

 

[Blackpowderart]

I’ll leave this thread here. I received a message from the OP with photos showing the minie, his breech plug and the barrel. He found a local smith to remove the plug and the bullet. His private message will stay that way..

What the what???? All the people that took their time and intuition to try and help the OP with solid advise and he abandons his thread and doesn't alert others to the successful removal of the projectile? The nerve of some people. We now know all we need to know about the user.....guys, don't waste your time.