Making paper cartridges-my solution

Flintlock Whiskey · Apr 28, 2023

I bought a kit a little while back and have made several hundred of them in .36 and .44 combined. Everything worked well except for putting in the ball. They would always kind of sit on top of the opening and it was a pain. It was made worse when I put some stick glue on the ball first as per instructions. What I did was wrap a piece of blue tape around the post of the former where the "rim" of the cartridge was. It allowed for a wider opening and it worked with the forming block perfectly. Now the ball slips into the cartridge and seats perfectly on the powder. I just got done making 50 cartridges in .36 and only had two of them give me any trouble and even those were easily taken care of. To secure them in the cartridge I used a little elmers glue, the glue stick didn't cooperate for this. This was my solution, your milage may vary. It's a lot more fun to plink with my 1851 and 1858 now.

hrt4me · Apr 28, 2023

a picture is worth a thousand words...

Flintlock Whiskey · Apr 28, 2023

hrt4me said:
a picture is worth a thousand words...

True, I will post one or two soon.

Flintlock Whiskey · Apr 28, 2023

hrt4me said:
a picture is worth a thousand words...

The one on the left is before the tape. The ball kinda sits on top and is not very secured. On the right the ball seats down on the powder and is secure.

Flintlock Whiskey · Apr 28, 2023

Flintlock Whiskey said:
True, I will post one or two soon.

This is with the tape. You will note that it doesn't interfere with seating the mandrel.

Eutycus · Apr 28, 2023

By "blue tape" I'm assuming you're referring to the kind painters use?

Flintlock Whiskey · Apr 29, 2023

Eutycus said:
By "blue tape" I'm assuming you're referring to the kind painters use?

Yes

Blackpowderart · Apr 29, 2023

Arabic gum glue ....thats what I use for the balls. I use glue stick for the paper. I take a little bit of gum glue and put it on a small piece of plastic, them take a small hobby paint brush and put the glue on the sides of the ball. Works great. My cartritges speak for themselves..

I usually take one night and make a bunch of paper cups and another to "load" them.

FlinterNick · Apr 29, 2023

I would just use heavy gauge wax paper or baking parchment. The resin on the tap will not do you any favors when it cooks in with the fouling.

Original cartridges used a glue that was pine rosen and wax based, much like that of a letter sealing wax, it was sticky but didn’t not stick to the bore.

Mica · Apr 29, 2023

Nice-looking cartridges. I've had the same issue, but just made sure that the opening was just wide enough to take in the ball. So the body of the cartridge has a (sort of) snow cone effect. The plastic former obviously is shaped to do that.
I roll the ball around on the end of the glue stick before dropping in. After a while, there would be a roundish hole in the top of the glue stick which makes that easier. My problem is that the paper up around the ball does not burn off well when shot. So I need to clear out the excess paper that's often still in the hole after shooting 2 or 3 cylinders. I soak the round bases in potassium nitrate to help ignition, but not the paper - it doesn't glue well after the PN bath.

Mica · Apr 29, 2023

Forgot to post this with previous comment.

Flintlock Whiskey · Apr 29, 2023

Blackpowderart said:
Arabic gum glue ....thats what I use for the balls. I use glue stick for the paper. I take a little bit of gum glue and put it on a small piece of plastic, them take a small hobby paint brush and put the glue on the sides of the ball. Works great. My cartritges speak for themselves..

I usually take one night and make a bunch of paper cups and another to "load" them.

How much powder do you have in those?
They look really good btw.

Pete453 · Apr 29, 2023

Blackpowderart said:
Blackpowderart,
Cool picture, you're reminding me that I need to make up some cartridges for my 62. You can sure fit a bunch in an Altoids tin!

Mica · Apr 29, 2023

Thank you! I use 24gr Pyrodex P for .36, and 30gr for .44. I just use the spouts from my powder flask. I think about 25 gr would be better for .44 but I'm too lazy to measure that out each time.

I do have too much paper over the ball. Think I need to cut it so that about half of the ball is exposed above the paper.

The whole experience is somewhat spoiled by the hang fires which seem to happen about once every cylinder or two.

Flintlock Whiskey · Apr 29, 2023

Mica said:
So I need to clear out the excess paper that's often still in the hole after shooting 2 or 3 cylinders. I soak the round bases in potassium nitrate to help ignition, but not the paper - it doesn't glue well after the PN bath.

Thanks. I have fired 50 of these in both the .44 Rem and the .36 Navy in an afternoon. The first time I did this, when I got home and disassembled them, A bunch of unburnt rings of paper fell out of the cylinders. I am surprised it kept firing as well as it did with all that in there. I didn't notice any problem with compressing the cartridge down with the lever. Of course, after 25 to 30 rounds, the guns started to get stiff from all the fouling. By 50 rounds they were done. The cartridges certainly make for a more "funner" day of shooting.

Flintlock Whiskey · Apr 29, 2023

Mica said:
Thank you! I use 24gr Pyrodex P for .36, and 30gr for .44. I just use the spouts from my powder flask. I think about 25 gr would be better for .44 but I'm too lazy to measure that out each time.

I do have too much paper over the ball. Think I need to cut it so that about half of the ball is exposed above the paper.

The whole experience is somewhat spoiled by the hang fires which seem to happen about once every cylinder or two.

In over 200 cartridges fired, I've only had one delay to fire occur. I'm not suggesting you don't know what you are doing, but is it possible you are using too heavy a paper or using two layers of paper? The paper is so thin that it isn't difficult to accidentally have two layers of paper.

Blackpowderart · Apr 30, 2023

FlinterNick said:
I would just use heavy gauge wax paper or baking parchment. The resin on the tap will not do you any favors when it cooks in with the fouling.

Original cartridges used a glue that was pine rosen and wax based, much like that of a letter sealing wax, it was sticky but didn’t not stick to the bore.

Example arabic gum glue...it is
Literally listed in some of the colt documents. It's used for envelopes, cigars, food products it's edible.

Blackpowderart · Apr 30, 2023

The Example I gave is for the pocket police in .36 cal...so I use a 17grain conical mold and put 15grains of swiss behind the round ball. I'm using nitrated coffee filters and it is a one piece design, not a tube and a bottom piece. Quick and easy. There are two different molds of paper I use. I can fit 46 rounds of .36 in an altoid tin. Here is the arabic gum glue I use, and here is example
Of the paper form....once I start filling them with powder, I can turn them
out pretty quick

Blackpowderart · Apr 30, 2023

Here is an example of the "assembly line"....load the paper in the press, rotate down funnel, 15 grain scoop of powder, level off with card or knife, pour it in, the press has a vibrator in it so you press the button for like 1 second to settle the powder, glue ball and press the lever to clamp the paper to projectile.....next

There is a different block to put in the press to make the paper cups...very specific die's for different grain and style of bullets for a perfect fit every time...no loose cartritges

TarponStalker · Apr 30, 2023

Flintlock Whiskey said:
In over 200 cartridges fired, I've only had one delay to fire occur. I'm not suggesting you don't know what you are doing, but is it possible you are using too heavy a paper or using two layers of paper? The paper is so thin that it isn't difficult to accidentally have two layers of paper.

Your cartridges look great. I was gonna ask if you’ve fired any yet. It seems when I used that much paper covering most of the ball I got constant jams where my cylinder wouldn’t turn. I used nitrated coffee filters with 20 grns of 3F.
My cartridge paper only covered about 2/3 of the ball.
Thanks fir the idea.

Making paper cartridges-my solution

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