Preventing bore rust

Sidney Smith · Jul 15, 2024

I use clp or plain gun oil on a wet patch as the last step after cleaning. Never have issues.

FlinterNick · Jul 16, 2024

Sidney Smith said:
I use clp or plain gun oil on a wet patch as the last step after cleaning. Never have issues.

Careful with the CLP, it will get between the breech threads.

Rebel bull · Jul 16, 2024

French Colonial said:
Agree with Mikie, it is probably just the discoloration of the bore butter, give it a good cleaning and drop a small AAA flashlight or similar down the barrel (or buy a $50.00 bore scope off the web) and see what it looks like.

Then ditch the bore butter and use something better, Barricade, R.I.G. or other known rust inhibitors.

I was with you until you told him to ditch the butter even when discolored its still doing its job

French Colonial · Jul 16, 2024

Rebel bull said:
I was with you until you told him to ditch the butter even when discolored its still doing its job

Maybe so, all I am saying is, there are better alternatives.

jackpine54 · Jul 16, 2024

Lots of good advice. I mostly use bear oil, because I am lucky enough to have it. Back in the 80s used bore butter and always got some brown on the patches after storage. I believe it's just the oxidized bore butter, never had any rust and a with couple dry patches it was gone.

Siringo · Jul 16, 2024

Aggie1105 said:
Howdy all,

I am recently new to the forum. I’m sure this topic has been covered many times, but I’d appreciate it if anyone could spare info they find useful.

I have a Spanish .45cal Jukar rifle that I have shot once about a year ago after purchasing from a friend. It was swabbed thoroughly after shooting it until patches were coming out clean. I then swabbed with TC bore butter to protect the bore and put it in the safe. I pulled it out today to clean alongside some other guns, and the first cleaning patch came out very reddish-brown. I live in an area with high humidity, but the exterior had no rust and no other guns in the safe have any rust. This is the second time I have had this happen with this specific gun.

Does anyone have info on why this might happen? Does bore butter oxidize or look rust colored over time or is it legitimate rust? Open to any advice in case I am doing something wrong. Thanks in advance.

HP

How do you know it’s rust? Especially when all the guns are the same. I have that too at times, but it’s not rust. It’s the solvents in barricade dissolving burned on patch lube (unless you spit patch). Water and dawn will not remove patch lubes especially if they contain beeswax. Pedersoli guns will exhibit this reddish residue which is the bore preservative which can only be removed with MEK and a bore brush.

CZMark · Jul 16, 2024

FlinterNick said:
Careful with the CLP, it will get between the breech threads.

Just curious, why is CLP between the breech threads a problem?

FlinterNick · Jul 16, 2024

CZMark said:
Just curious, why is CLP between the breech threads a problem?

CLP is a debris magnet, will clog and seize up threads

Twisted_1in66 · Jul 16, 2024

Okie Hog said:
Not so!!!!

IME: The residue 0f Pyrodex is no more corrosive than the residue of unholy black powder. The residue of the other BP substitutes are much less corrosive than that of unholy black powder.

i won't use unholy black powder. IMO: It's for blasting rocks and stumps.

Then don't ever buy a flintlock because Pyrodex won't light off in a flintlock. It has a flash point of over 400° hotter than Black Powder. Pyrodex works great in percussion cap rifles and pistols, but not in flint locks.

I bought a Pedersoli percussion cap Kentucky pistol in 1969. that was my first black powder use. Bought the black powder right there in the hardware store where I bought the pistol. It was fun to use and surprisingly accurate. Many years later when BP became more highly restricted, Pyrodex came out (1976) and was on all the shelves. I bought it and used it and it worked great in my cap and ball pistol. Then in about 2003, when we lived in Vermont, my wife bought me a Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle. I immediately took it out with my Pyrodex down to Frog Hollow (actual name of the road used to get there) and no matter what I did, I couldn't get the pan to flash. Was totally bummed because I wanted to use if for reenactments and they fire a LOT of blank chargess at reenactments.

I went back home and went looking in my garage to see if I had any BP. Sure enough found a glass jar that I had stored it in before there was Pyrodex. Went back to Frog Hollow and it went off repeatedly with the black powder. It was a relief! Later I talked to a BP gun builder in the reenactment group I joined and he's the one who told me about that flash point difference and that Pyrodex would never work by itself in a flintlock. If BP is dear where you are, you can put a little BP down the bore for a base and put the rest of it in with Pyrodex because once BP goes off, it's plenty hot enough to ignite Pyrodex. You do need to charge the pan with the real BP though or it won't work. In fact, I think that Pyrodex makes some of their pellets now as a hybrid load using BP at the base of the pellet with Pyrodex as the main body. That might work in a flintlock.

Pyrodex was reputed to be less corrosive than BP because it uses less sulfur. In my experience, it is every bit as corrosive if not more so than BP - YMMV. So early on I developed a cleaning routine of never letting it sit overnight without cleaning it. Certainly most of my cleaning has been done after reenactments where we fire blanks - blanks foul far more than live firing does. As soon as we came in off the field for the day, I would clean my rifle. Not a lot of reenactments since I moved to Washington state, but that routine is ingrained now and has served me well.

One substitute I tried that did work 2 to 3 times out of 10 was Triple 7. It is far less corrosive than either BP or Pyrodex because it has no sulfur in it at all and running water will remove the fouling. Still not reliable enough to depend on (7 to 8 misfires out of 10), but it's flashpoint is a bit lower. All of those substitutes are perfectly fine for percussion cap use but only the "HOLY Black Powder" will do for flintlocks.

I found a supply of BP the next village over, just 6-miles from my house. It was a very non-descript place and they supplied the Black Powder to the Slate Quarries nearby. The Black Powder evidently generates lower frequency vibrations which break off larger chunks of slate than the more modern higher frequency explosives do.

Twisted_1in66 · Jul 16, 2024

Jacking543 said:
I've used Bore Butter for years, about 30 or so, but have since move on to better protestants.
I never had a rusting issue.

I had a problem with bore butter one time when I was living in Vermont. It was a sunny winter day and the temperature had risen to about 11° if I recall correctly. Went to a quarry a few miles from my house and went to set up some targets, but left my hammer behind. So I leaned a few things against the wall and then proceeded to load my rifle. I pulled the bore butter out to lube the patch and the darn tube was frozen solid. So I took that tube back up to the target area and used it to hammer in the brads I'd brought to mount some paper targets.

then I'd put a patch in my mouth (spit patch) and after I poured the powder down the bore, I put the patch on the muzzle and my lead ball over it to finish loading. As long as I didn't put the patch down before putting it on the muzzle under the ball, it loaded and fired just fine. So the bore butter was pretty worthless in freezing weather for its designed function, but sure made a good hammer for mounting targets in freezing weather.
:ghostly:

And then I came back to the Muzzleloading forum to see what folks used in freezing weather, came across Stumpy's Moose Snot formula, and have been using that paste patch lube for the last 20-years. It doesn't freeze in freezing temperatures and doesn't turn into liquid during the summer either. it's about the consistency of paste shoe polish.

SPQR70AD · Jul 16, 2024

gunpa said:
IME Pyrodex is worse than black powder at rusting up your barrel and bore butter helps it grow!

they tried shipping Pyrodex to Europe tons of it and it rotted a hole in the hold of the ship then it sank. a horrible event

SPQR70AD · Jul 16, 2024

J.D. said:
Come back the following day, or two, after cleaning, and check for rust. IMHO, cleaning with a several spritzes of Windex, then a rinse with alcohol, or WD 40, though I like alcohol better, dry the bore, then grease the bore, liberally, with Vaseline. Vaseline is a wax, that is easily removed with an alcohol patch, or two, so it does not adversely affect powder or fouling. Also shoot real black powder. Some of the BP substitutes, especially Pyrodex, will rot out a bore in no time. IMHO, Pyrodex is cancer to steel.

I have a few Damascus knives and they start to rust if you look at them. tried everything oil grease all dried up in a few months and some rust would appear. I put vaseline on them and for years it is exactly like when I put it on. never dried up and there was never rust

SPQR70AD · Jul 16, 2024

Twisted_1in66 said:
Then don't ever buy a flintlock because Pyrodex won't light off in a flintlock. It has a flash point of over 400° hotter than Black Powder. Pyrodex works great in percussion cap rifles and pistols, but not in flint locks.

I bought a Pedersoli percussion cap Kentucky pistol in 1969. that was my first black powder use. Bought the black powder right there in the hardware store where I bought the pistol. It was fun to use and surprisingly accurate. Many years later when BP became more highly restricted, Pyrodex came out (1976) and was on all the shelves. I bought it and used it and it worked great in my cap and ball pistol. Then in about 2003, when we lived in Vermont, my wife bought me a Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle. I immediately took it out with my Pyrodex down to Frog Hollow (actual name of the road used to get there) and no matter what I did, I couldn't get the pan to flash. Was totally bummed because I wanted to use if for reenactments and they fire a LOT of blank chargess at reenactments.

I went back home and went looking in my garage to see if I had any BP. Sure enough found a glass jar that I had stored it in before there was Pyrodex. Went back to Frog Hollow and it went off repeatedly with the black powder. It was a relief! Later I talked to a BP gun builder in the reenactment group I joined and he's the one who told me about that flash point difference and that Pyrodex would never work by itself in a flintlock. If BP is dear where you are, you can put a little BP down the bore for a base and put the rest of it in with Pyrodex because once BP goes off, it's plenty hot enough to ignite Pyrodex. You do need to charge the pan with the real BP though or it won't work. In fact, I think that Pyrodex makes some of their pellets now as a hybrid load using BP at the base of the pellet with Pyrodex as the main body. That might work in a flintlock.

Pyrodex was reputed to be less corrosive than BP because it uses less sulfur. In my experience, it is every bit as corrosive if not more so than BP - YMMV. So early on I developed a cleaning routine of never letting it sit overnight without cleaning it. Certainly most of my cleaning has been done after reenactments where we fire blanks - blanks foul far more than live firing does. As soon as we came in off the field for the day, I would clean my rifle. Not a lot of reenactments since I moved to Washington state, but that routine is ingrained now and has served me well.

One substitute I tried that did work 2 to 3 times out of 10 was Triple 7. It is far less corrosive than either BP or Pyrodex because it has no sulfur in it at all and running water will remove the fouling. Still not reliable enough to depend on (7 to 8 misfires out of 10), but it's flashpoint is a bit lower. All of those substitutes are perfectly fine for percussion cap use but only the "HOLY Black Powder" will do for flintlocks.

I found a supply of BP the next village over, just 6-miles from my house. It was a very non-descript place and they supplied the Black Powder to the Slate Quarries nearby. The Black Powder evidently generates lower frequency vibrations which break off larger chunks of slate than the more modern higher frequency explosives do.

7 to 8 out of 10 misfires with 777? is that with a flintlock?

Twisted_1in66 · Jul 16, 2024

SPQR70AD said:
7 to 8 out of 10 misfires with 777? is that with a flintlock?

Yes that is in a flintlock. In fact Ed, the gun-builder in our group, was amazed I got it to go off at all. I still do have my cap and ball Kentucky pistol but haven't used it in years. It worked fine in that and would clean off fouling by the nipple by just running some water over it.

I just use one or both of my flintlock longrifles now. With BP, as long as I do my part, it goes off every time. The Early Lancaster longrifle I've used since about 2006 (maybe 2005) uses an L&R Queen Anne lock and that lock is not finicky at all - barely fill it; fill it half-way; overfill it; it still goes off just fine. With the much smaller lock on the Traditions longrifle, I have to fill it no more than half way and give a quick flick of the wrist to the right to bank the powder against side of the pan so there's blank space between the powder and the touch-hole. If I don't do that, that Traditions rifle will often give a flash in the pan or that fuse effect - shhhhhhhh....BOOM". Took me a while to figure out the idiosyncrasies of that Traditions lock but once I did it was a reliable shooter. It uses a patent breech, which in my opinion is far more trouble than it's worth.

The Early Lancaster rifle was built by a fellow going by the screenname "tg" here on the forum and it is a beautiful and period-correct build for pre-Rev War. Haven't seen him on the forum for at least the last 10-years though.

Here's my girl. I think she's gorgeous. She is very svelte, handles beautifully and has all her curves in all the right places.:

Juice Jaws · Jul 16, 2024

Aggie1105 said:
Howdy all,

I am recently new to the forum. I’m sure this topic has been covered many times, but I’d appreciate it if anyone could spare info they find useful.

I have a Spanish .45cal Jukar rifle that I have shot once about a year ago after purchasing from a friend. It was swabbed thoroughly after shooting it until patches were coming out clean. I then swabbed with TC bore butter to protect the bore and put it in the safe. I pulled it out today to clean alongside some other guns, and the first cleaning patch came out very reddish-brown. I live in an area with high humidity, but the exterior had no rust and no other guns in the safe have any rust. This is the second time I have had this happen with this specific gun.

Does anyone have info on why this might happen? Does bore butter oxidize or look rust colored over time or is it legitimate rust? Open to any advice in case I am doing something wrong. Thanks in advance.

HP

Tape a dime to the Bore Butter and throw it as far as you can, that way when someone finds the Bore Butter they will also find the dime that is worth something. Clean with warm water and soap and then dry and lube bore with a good gun oil.

SPQR70AD · Jul 16, 2024

Twisted_1in66 said:
Yes that is in a flintlock. In fact Ed, the gun-builder in our group, was amazed I got it to go off at all. I still do have my cap and ball Kentucky pistol but haven't used it in years. It worked fine in that and would clean off fouling by the nipple by just running some water over it.

I just use one or both of my flintlock longrifles now. With BP, as long as I do my part, it goes off every time. The Early Lancaster longrifle I've used since about 2006 (maybe 2005) uses an L&R Queen Anne lock and that lock is not finicky at all - barely fill it; fill it half-way; overfill it; it still goes off just fine. With the much smaller lock on the Traditions longrifle, I have to fill it no more than half way and give a quick flick of the wrist to the right to bank the powder against side of the pan so there's blank space between the powder and the touch-hole. If I don't do that, that Traditions rifle will often give a flash in the pan or that fuse effect - shhhhhhhh....BOOM". Took me a while to figure out the idiosyncrasies of that Traditions lock but once I did it was a reliable shooter. It uses a patent breech, which in my opinion is far more trouble than it's worth.

The Early Lancaster rifle was built by a fellow going by the screenname "tg" here on the forum and it is a beautiful and period-correct build for pre-Rev War. Haven't seen him on the forum for at least the last 10-years though.

Here's my girl. I think she's gorgeous. She is very svelte, handles beautifully and has all her curves in all the right places.:

View attachment 334399

nice rifle

kyron4 · Jul 17, 2024

FlinterNick said:
CLP is a debris magnet, will clog and seize up threads

"Careful with the CLP, it will get between the breech threads."

Huh ? Are you referring to the breech plug that is rarely removed or never removed in most
production guns ? Not sure I follow how a lubricant in threads will seize them up ? It would seem it would prevent rust which will definitely seize the threads.

FlinterNick · Jul 17, 2024

kyron4 said:
"Careful with the CLP, it will get between the breech threads."

Huh ? Are you referring to the breech plug that is rarely removed or never removed in most
production guns ? Not sure I follow how a lubricant in threads will seize them up ? It would seem it would prevent rust which will definitely seize the threads.

CLP is extremely thin oil, the viscosity of CLP almost OW. If you clean with it, it needs to be wiped off not applied or soaked in. It will accumulate the smallest particles and when heated it will crust. It will get into breech plug threads and seize up the plug, vent liner, and will even cause additional corrosion because of the build up. Breech plugs may be rarely removed, however the thread health is very important, you don’t wont needless corrosion in the plug threads, in particular are the shoulder of the plug. The smallest amount will also keep your frizzen from sparking.

https://mil-comm.com/gun-cleaning/the-problem-with-clp-type-gun-lubricants/

Okie Hog · Jul 17, 2024

Twisted_1in66 said:
Then don't ever buy a flintlock because Pyrodex won't light off in a flintlock.

Yep, i know that. i don't do rock locks.

French Colonial · Jul 17, 2024

Are all CLP's the same?

Preventing bore rust

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