Loading from the pouch?

The rules I have seen at big rendezvouses and shoots is the ramrod needs to be of period materials and fit in the ram rods pipes on your gun. You can get brass ramrods that fit most guns. I used to make out of brass tubing to lessen the weight. The tubing ones stayed in the gun all the time.

I carry only enough stuff needed to shoot the gun for however many shots I think I’ll shoot. Don’t need a ball mold, hatchet, frying pan, duct tape, extra socks, compass, Louis Lamour books or toilet paper.

I use brass ramrods in all my Hawken rifles. You can have the sturdiness of a range rod and still carry it like the stock ramrod.

https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/brass-ramrods/

The best advice has already been given: grip the rr close to the muzzle.

Ok, tried thinner patch materials normally use .445" ball and .020" patch, for a .465" patch/ball combo. When I do my part, get 1.5" groups at 50yds. Decided 2.5" at 50yds would be acceptable accuracy sacrifice for easier loading. First went to .017" patch for .462" combo with little detectable difference in accuracy or ease of loading. Next tried. 014" patch for .459" combo. Groups went to 2.5", and loading was noticeably easier. Next, went to .440" balls, and .014" patch for .454" combo could seat the ball whith light thumb pressure, but groups opened up to 5". Went to .017" patch for a .457" combo, had to use light pressure on a short starter to seat the ball, but group size was back under 3", next tried. 020" patch for .460" combo, group size was good, but much harder to seat the ball. So, it looks like .457" - .459" is going to be the best compromise.

Reduced the contents of my bag to this:


Ordered brass and a nylon replacement rods.

JDBraddy said:

Ok, tried thinner patch materials normally use .445" ball and .020" patch, for a .465" patch/ball combo. When I do my part, get 1.5" groups at 50yds. Decided 2.5" at 50yds would be acceptable accuracy sacrifice for easier loading. First went to .017" patch for .462" combo with little detectable difference in accuracy or ease of loading. Next tried. 014" patch for .459" combo. Groups went to 2.5", and loading was noticeably easier. Next, went to .440" balls, and .014" patch for .454" combo could seat the ball whith light thumb pressure, but groups opened up to 5". Went to .017" patch for a .457" combo, had to use light pressure on a short starter to seat the ball, but group size was back under 3", next tried. 020" patch for .460" combo, group size was good, but much harder to seat the ball. So, it looks like .457" - .459" is going to be the best compromise.

Reduced the contents of my bag to this:
View attachment 357229

Ordered brass and a nylon replacement rods.

Click to expand...

All your math is nice but you need to add the patch thickness twice to get the actual size of the patch and ball. Hint the patch is on both sides of the ball

flconch53 said:

All your math is nice but you need to add the patch thickness twice to get the actual size of the patch and ball. Hint the patch is on both sides of the ball

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Oh well, he did find the combo needed.

I'll confess to rarely measuring patch material but I don't change up very often.

longcruise said:

Oh well, he did find the combo needed.

I'll confess to rarely measuring patch material but I don't change up very often.

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I never measure
Mine mainly because I have a huge PC of pillow ticking that may last me a life time

flconch53 said:

The rules I have seen at big rendezvouses and shoots is the ramrod needs to be of period materials and fit in the ram rods pipes on your gun. You can get brass ramrods that fit most guns. I used to make out of brass tubing to lessen the weight. The tubing ones stayed in the gun all the time.

Click to expand...

To hitch a ride on your comment, 3/8" brass tubing can be had with a bore sized to simplify making female threads for attachments.

Mike in FL said:

The best advice has already been given: grip the rr close to the muzzle.

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This was one of the first things I learned in the 70s when I was taught how to load a muzzleloading rifle. I cringe when I see guys grabbing the rod 3 feet high!!

flconch53 said:

All your math is nice but you need to add the patch thickness twice to get the actual size of the patch and ball. Hint the patch is on both sides of the ball

Click to expand...

I am aware, but also understand that patch cloth compresses a certain amount. It's kind of like rounding Pie to 3.14, most patch material compresses to approximately half It's actual thickness, some to 1/3, some to 5/8, but I find it generally averages out to about half, so I just approximate by adding the thickness of the patch materials to the ball size. This also helps approximates accounting for variables like how tightly you compressed this one or that one. Do you really need to calculate Pie to 38 or 40 digits in order to approximate the area of a circle?

JDBraddy said:

Reduced the contents of my bag to this:
View attachment 357229

Ordered brass and a nylon replacement rods.

Click to expand...

Eliminate 5 pounds by putting a dozen or so balls in a ball bag, and leave the box of balls in the truck.
Lots of fine folks make and sell ball bags on this forum.
Does your club take offense regarding plastic bottles?
You can pre-lube your patches, and maybe eliminate one of the bottles. Carry the lubed patches in a tin.
Do you plan to clean the bore with the big bottle of stuff while on the line?
Leave it out of the bag, too.
Just some thoughts.
I wish you straight shooting, and keep your powder dry!

Brazos John said:

Eliminate 5 pounds by putting a dozen or so balls in a ball bag, and leave the box of balls in the truck.
Lots of fine folks make and sell ball bags on this forum.
Does your club take offense regarding plastic bottles?
You can pre-lube your patches, and maybe eliminate one of the bottles. Carry the lubed patches in a tin.
Do you plan to clean the bore with the big bottle of stuff while on the line?
Leave it out of the bag, too.
Just some thoughts.
I wish you straight shooting, and keep your powder dry!

Click to expand...

The big bottle is my powder flask. Don't have a powder horn, or a ball bag yet. Will eventually get them though. Use dry lubed patch strips, cut at the muzzle. the spray bottles are for swabbing and cleaning, could probably eliminate one of them. The pre-moisened patches in tins are a good idea.

JDBraddy said:

I am aware, but also understand that patch cloth compresses a certain amount. It's kind of like rounding Pie to 3.14, most patch material compresses to approximately half It's actual thickness, some to 1/3, some to 5/8, but I find it generally averages out to about half, so I just approximate by adding the thickness of the patch materials to the ball size. This also helps approximates accounting for variables like how tightly you compressed this one or that one. Do you really need to calculate Pie to 38 or 40 digits in order to approximate the area of a circle?

Click to expand...

That is not true. Have you ever pulled a ball and seen the pattern of the patch imprinted on the the ball? A patch may compress .002 or so. But you do what you want.

flconch53 said:

That is not true. Have you ever pulled a ball and seen the pattern of the patch imprinted on the the ball? A patch may compress .002 or so. But you do what you want.

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Ok, could be mistaken due to assumption and misunderstanding on my part, certainly wouldn't be the first time. My question is, how do I use that information?

JDBraddy said:

Am still relatively new to muzzleloading, about a year now. I shoot primarily club matches, load from the bench using a steel range rod.
View attachment 356231

That being said my club has scheduled what they call a "primative" match, that requires loading from the pouch.

Since I have never done that, figured their would be a learning curve with respect to the mechanics of this, so decided I'd better practice it. Organizing the bag, holding the rifle while measuring powder, starting a tightly patched ball without a mallet, using a thin flimsy wooden ramrod, my first reload from the bag gave the following result.
View attachment 356233

Would appreciate any tips, tricks, or suggestions as how to better manage the mechanics of loading from a shoulder bag.

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Wow!
You are lucky.
I load my rifles in the 18th Century military fashion. I place the rifle butt on the ground outside of my left foot with the barrel away from me . I use a measure attached to my horn, and pour the black powder into the barrel. I use a precut patch and a .01 undersized ball both pulled from my pouch. I set in the patched ball with the handle of my knife. Then withdrawing the ramrod with my tight hand and holding my hand close to the near end of it, I start pushing the ball down the bore with short strokes until it is seated on the powder. The ramrod is replaced in the thimbles
The rifle is then bought to my right side with my left hand and primed with my main powderhorn. It is now ready.

JDBraddy said:

Ok, could be mistaken due to assumption and misunderstanding on my part, certainly wouldn't be the first time. My question is, how do I use that information?

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It pretty much is find what works and stick with it. Myself I am more likely to vary ball size than patch size. But some rifles are fussy and need certain things

JDBraddy said:

The pre-moisened patches in tins are a good idea.

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Under heading "keep it simple" I assign that and all other special containers to the side. When you are standing in place with the rifle held between your legs you will want everything easily in reach without having to dip into separate containers. Having some caps in a tin to replenish the capper is an exception. If hunting, put a few dry patches in the cap tin to prevent noise.

Think in terms of leaving the bench and any supports out of the picture. What would be the best way to load your pouch that will simplify loading?

I call it the "altoid mentality". Everything seems to be in it's own altoid container (of course burned off to look PC).

So there you are, rifle supported between your legs as you work at opening a container to retrieve a patch or ball or short starter. It gets to be like retrieving your car keys from your pocket while holding two big bags of groceries.

I do all my loading, whether plinking or hunting, from the bag. Here’s one of my smooth bore bags and they’re all set up the same. Only what I need for a morning of plinking or day of hunting. Left to right are round balls (about 35 in the bag), jute tow wadding, flints and leather, turn screw, toothpick, tow worm, fixing wax, and a cleaning rag. A fixed blade knife is on my belt and a folding knife is in my pocket. Stuff like glasses, cell phone, ear plugs, water bottles, snacks or bandaids are either in my coat pocket or the truck. This is just a shooting bag.

Powder is carried in a horn and the measure is attached by a string to the horn. If I want to use shot in a smooth bore, I carry shot in a horn with shot measure attached to it.



Here’s one of my percussion rifle bags and they’re all set up the same. I have started carrying patches in a hand sewn bag instead of a tin. The cloth bag is less weight and bulk than a tin and could also be used for patches if things get rough up in the mountains. . I didn’t show it, but I also keep an extra nipple in the bag.

I use good quality hickory ram rods in the correct manner. In my .50 caliber Traditions Kentucky rifle, I use .490 round balls and thin, spit lubed patches which can be short started with my thumb. It’s easy to load. No short starters or mallets needed. It will still shoot 4” groups at 75 yards. I used to use tighter loads and a short starter but changed after I found that a looser load worked just as good.

Banjoman, nice smooth bore bag, Fowler looks good too!