The LIES and confusion of Tung Oil wood finish

wiscoaster said:

Thanks for the link. Bookmarked for future reference.

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Ditto

Coinneach said:

Formbys, do you mean Formbys Furniture Restorer ?

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No, he means Formbys Tung Oil finish. Company went out of business a few years ago. It was a go-to finish for many wood workers. As stated, it was a polymerized varnish. New old stock can still be purchased on Amazon for $100 a quart. Other options today do not justify the price.

NavyDoc76-80 said:

No, he means Formbys Tung Oil finish. Company went out of business a few years ago. It was a go-to finish for many wood workers. As stated, it was a polymerized varnish. New old stock can still be purchased on Amazon for $100 a quart. Other options today do not justify the price.

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Thanks for replying.

Was asked to upload some pics of my project. Hope this works. First time trial doing this.

dave_person said:

Hi David,
The polymerized oils are heat treated to basically initiate that natural polymerization much faster also aided by solvents. I suggest anyone posting about their "tung" oil finish also post the products name and manufacturer.
Some posters are comparing apples and oranges all under the name "tung oil" and that creates a lot of confusion. As I've posted many times, I use Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil in medium sheen. It is not their exterior finish which simply means it does not have UV blockers added. No need for them on a gun stock. If you purchase some online, I urge you to buy their stop loss bags and filler system, which you can use for other finishes as well. Because of the polymerization process, the oil has a shelf life when it is exposed to air after opening. It will start to gel in a few months. The stop loss bags prevent that entirely and I've had oil in them for 2 years without gelling.


dave

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"......the oil has a shelf life when it is exposed to air after opening. It will start to gel in a few months."

Had a problem with that, then tried sitting the small jar I decanted the True Oil ( turned into a white gel) into a small saucepan of moderately heated water which brought it back to its original clear liquid form.
I've also found that leaving the jar out in the Sun before use will have the same effect.

wiscoaster said:

Tru-Oil and Minwax Tung Oil Finish are too shiny for a vintage-look gunstock if just left to dry and cure. Excess sheen is easily dealt with. Too little sheen is not. Therefore I'd rather use a polymerized oil finish because it's faster and its level of sheen can be moderated and the end result is the same.

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I have used a lot of Tung oil. I just pick a can up at the hardware store. I believe the companies that make these finishes have ironed out all the bugs.They all have diluted the Tung oil with something? I don't need to reinvent the wheel? As someone earlier suggested a little 0000 steel wool can alter the sheen if one so desires. I also know that there are people on this forum that are more knowledgeable than I when it comes to finishes and you are one of them.Your statements on the subject are inline with my thoughts. I am happy with tung oil but I go through phases when buying a finish. I am presently into my Danish Oil finish. There is no telling what I will choose next? The reason I mentioned this is I have found very little problem using a variety finishes when I adhere to the directions on the container. If there is one thing that bothers me it is over thinking a problem that doesn't exist? LOL!

I don't always use oil, but when I want to use oil on wood I use 100% real tung oil. I get it from here, https://www.realmilkpaint.com/shop/oils/pure-tung-chinawood/ I have used it for years with absolutely no problems at all. it dry's fast and looks great. I have been told that tung oil from the hardware store has little to no real tung oil at all.

olskool said:

i don't always use oil when i want to use oil on wood I use 100% real tung oil. I get it from here, https://www.realmilkpaint.com/shop/oils/pure-tung-chinawood/ I have used it for years with absolutely no problems at all. it dry's fast and looks great. I have been told that tung oil from the hardware store has little to no real tung oil at all.

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I would like to know how you use it? I find drying time with the store bought hard to dry if thin coats are not applyed? Pure Tung Oil has a reputation of having a long drying time? I don't use pure Tung Oil because of this trait.

LME said:

I would like to know how you use it? I find drying time with the store bought hard to dry if thin coats are not applyed? Pure Tung Oil has a reputation of having a long drying time? I don't use pure Tung Oil because of this trait.

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buy from the real milk paint company and try it for yourself. trust me it will dry. try it on some scrap wood first.

I just finished a walnut stocked Kibler SMR. I studied and read a lot of threads about how to use natural oil finishes. Read Dave's stuff a lot about Alkanet root "red oil" too, and have redone a AAA grade shotgun stock with that. But I wanted this gun to walk the line between authentic Southern Appalachian walnut stocked rifles which show some grain pores, and a fulled filled grain shotgun stock. I did it with Chambers Oil, about 13 coats. And one red oil coat at the very beginning. This was extremely porous walnut. The grain is about 3/4 filled. In "wear and handling points" like the forend, it'a about 100% filled.

People talk a lot about Boiled Linseed Oil (which I used exclusively on another rifle), and Tung Oil. But not the two combined. I believe but am not certain that Chambers Tradition Oil finish is Boiled Linseed and Tung. I know that for everything I've used it on, I love it. Each coat dries in about 24-36 hrs, where I live in the desert.

@AZshot Have you got a pic of your toeplate?

Yes. But I won't go off on a tangent in a post about wood finishes with it. I'll start another thread.

AZshot said:

I just finished a walnut stocked Kiberler SMR. I studied and read a lot of threads about how to use natural oil finishes. Read Dave's stuff a lot about Alkanet root "red oil" too, and have redone a AAA grade shotgun stock with that. But I wanted this gun to walk the line between authentic Southern Appalachian walnut stocked rifles which show some grain pores, and a fulled filled grain shotgun stock. I did it with Chambers Oil, about 13 coats. And one red oil coat at the very beginning. This was extremely porous walnut. The grain is about 3/4 filled. In "wear and handling points" like the forend, it'a about 100% filled.

People talk a lot about Boiled Linseed Oil (which I used exclusively on another rifle), and Tung Oil. But not the two combined. I believe but am not certain that Chambers Tradition Oil finish is Boiled Linseed and Tung. I know that for everything I've used it on, I love it. Each coat dries in about 24-36 hrs, where I live in the desert.

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Nothing wrong with that finish!

Thanks, I'll start another thread on this particular method too. I have better photos.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/walnut-finished-with-chambers-oil-how-i-did-it.188663/

Don King made John Armstrong style rifles and used a varnish instead of linseed oil. There is historic evidence of varnish as a finish on American long rifles. I've had luck with hand rubbed spar varnish (McCloskey's Man of War high gloss) tinted with reddish-orange dye to simulate violin finishes. Warren Selke does wet on wet hand rubbed finishes with Ace Hardware spar varnish. I find highest gloss gives greatest protection and once cured you can effectively dull the sheen with scotch Brite pad and apply paste wax. I stopped using steel wool and cheesecloth sanding between coats because of the steel wool lint contamination. Over ten coats of Tru Oil looks nice and protects but when you bump or bruise the stock you can get a cloudy mark that won 't come out. Furniture from Asia finished with tung oil can last 1000 years but raw linseed and raw tung oil will not cure right if you put a top coat sealant before it is thoroughly dry.

Dave P and others. I have read till blue in the face on finishing stocks. I am going to finish mine with Sutherland Welles Tung oil finish. I plan on doing the first two coats as a sealer by making and using a batch of SW with 50/50 turpentine. What I can find no census on is this. Should I seal the inlet areas as well. Makes sense to seal 100%. A YouTuber using a different product said don’t. I say do. Any agreement or disagreement out there? Don’t hold back….

NavyDoc76-80 said:

Dave P and others. I have read till blue in the face on finishing stocks. I am going to finish mine with Sutherland Welles Tung oil finish. I plan on doing the first two coats as a sealer by making and using a batch of SW with 50/50 turpentine. What I can find no census on is this. Should I seal the inlet areas as well. Makes sense to seal 100%. A YouTuber using a different product said don’t. I say do. Any agreement or disagreement out there? Don’t hold back….

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Hi,
A thinned sealer coat is fine. I often do that as well. I usually do coat behind the butt plate and within the lock mortise with a sealer coat. Just one coat and it is to harden the wood not really seal out moisture. Most originals do not have finish in the mortises. The downside of finish in the mortises is that the wood may swell and the part not fit properly. I would not do it on a Kibler kit because the machined inlets are so precise and tight, wood swelling might cause a problem. However, I have no issues with coating the lock and butt plate mortises on guns I build because I inlet the parts to a pencil outline, which means the mortise is not too tight and can usually accommodate slight swelling from finish. Moreover, the edges of the lock plate have draft filed on them so they snug up against the wood only when the bolts pull them in tight.

dave

Ha! I guess if you don’t ask…
The forearm is also on my list of sealing with the 50/50 mix. I get the likelihood of some minor swelling but with the idea of lubricants on the barrel against the wood to prevent rust, I figured a little sealer would help prevent the wood being contaminated from the lube. Is this unnecessary consideration? I know I am lacking the tricks of this new trade I’ve taken up. But ignorance is no excuse when you want to excel, unfortunately it’s either trial and error or the imparting wisdom of a mentor. Advice is appreciated.

Hi,
Putting a little finish in the barrel channel won't hurt at all. Keep in mind, there are hundreds of 200-300 year old guns surviving with no finish in the barrel channel or any mortise. I don't recommend doing it on a Kibler kit because of the tight machine inletting. However, that said, I coat all my barrel channels with a varnish thin layer of Acra Glas epoxy. I do that not to really seal the wood, which it does, but too strengthen the thin walls of the barrel channel. When a gun is made correctly, those walls may be egg shell thin so the extra strength helps preserve them over the long haul. Guys are going to respond to your question about barrel lubricants by writing "you should never remove your barrel anyway so don't worry about lubricants on the underside". Just a little advice, whenever someone writes "you should never do something other than his way" it is usually a red flag that he has very limited or narrow experience. On southern mountain rifles with long narrow barrel tangs, you probably don't want to remove the barrel very much after building. If the barrel is browned and then lightly oiled initially with the excess wiped off, the residual oil is not going to hurt your unfinished barrel channel. On guns with hooked tangs and breeches, they were made that way so the barrel could be removed every time it was shot for cleaning. Despite comments that accuracy suffers if you remove the barrel for cleaning blah blah blah, some of the most accurate muzzeloaders ever made had hooked tangs and breeches. On barrels with standard length fixed tangs on the breech plugs like most long rifles, flip a coin about removing them. I remove them for cleaning all the time but some folks don't. After cleaning I wipe the whole barrel with a light coat of gun oil and wipe off the excess. The little residual oil won't hurt the barrel channel finished or unfinished. Now some guys slather on oil. My brother John was one of those and I find it common among ex-military guys. "If it is metal, grease it; if it doesn't move, paint it; if it moves, salute it". That heavy sloppy oiling can damage the barrel channels and lock mortises. However, if you apply just a light coat of oil with a rag, it will not hurt your stock.

dave

dave_person said:

. Guys are going to respond to your question about barrel lubricants by writing "you should never remove your barrel anyway so don't worry about lubricants on the underside". Just a little advice, whenever someone writes "you should never do something other than his way" it is usually a red flag that he has very limited or narrow experience. On southern mountain rifles with long narrow barrel tangs, you probably don't want to remove the barrel very much after building. If the barrel is browned and then lightly oiled initially with the excess wiped off, the residual oil is not going to hurt your unfinished barrel channel. On guns with hooked tangs and breeches, they were made that way so the barrel could be removed every time it was shot for cleaning. Despite comments that accuracy suffers if you remove the barrel for cleaning blah blah blah, some of the most accurate muzzeloaders ever made had hooked tangs and breeches. On barrels with standard length fixed tangs on the breech plugs like most long rifles, flip a coin about removing them. I remove them for cleaning all the time but some folks don't. After cleaning I wipe the whole barrel with a light coat of gun oil and wipe off the excess. The little residual oil won't hurt the barrel channel finished or unfinished. Now some guys slather on oil. My brother John was one of those and I find it common among ex-military guys. "If it is metal, grease it; if it doesn't move, paint it; if it moves, salute it". That heavy sloppy oiling can damage the barrel channels and lock mortises. However, if you apply just a light coat of oil with a rag, it will not hurt your stock.

dave

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dave….
Thank you again for your reply.
I’m now ready to move on to the finishing process.
Slow and steady…leaning more to the slow side, but getting there. Have a great day.