1851@100.

[springfield art]

Honestly can I just address the Elephant in the room and I'm not trying to single any one person out ...


But I have wondered why a person , any person, not any 1 person in particular...... would "mod" an Italian reproduction percussion revolver to shoot .45 LC "Ruger Only " loads when Ruger themselves make guns such as the beautiful .45 LC Bisley Blackhawk that will handle such loads all day long......maybe I'm just overthinking.

When I want to shoot .45 LC, or .44 Magnum, etc I simply open my safe and grab a Ruger in said caliber that probably costs less than it would to "convert" a cap and baller.....

Those smokeless items always stress using 'cowboy' loads; moderate.

 

[45D]

Those smokeless items always stress using 'cowboy' loads; moderate.

Which is exactly why I say that I don't advise doing what I am doing!
I'm TESTING WHAT THE OPEN-TOP PLATFORM WILL STAND (when executed correctly) !!! ( I did mention something about "reading" the whole post . . . )

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

Those smokeless items always stress using 'cowboy' loads; moderate.

I've tried one, I had a Walker years ago I dropped a .45 LC cylinder into and fired Cowboy ammo in it. It was cool for about 50 rounds then I just got a .45 Vaquero for then probably $550 and was like, why did I drop 200 bucks on a cylinder for my $350 Walker to shoot Mouse fart .45?

 

[45D]

I've tried one, I had a Walker years ago I dropped a .45 LC cylinder into and fired Cowboy ammo in it. It was cool for about 50 rounds then I just got a .45 Vaquero for then probably $550 and was like, why did I drop 200 bucks on a cylinder for my $350 Walker to shoot Mouse fart .45?

Precisely my point!!!

You don't have to shoot "mouse fart" loads . . . With a Kirst drop in or gated conversion, you can shoot any normal, off the shelf ammo you want. The instructions say 1000 fps loads . . . there isn't any off the shelf 250gr that are 1000 fps.

What you had was a $200.00 45C revolver that you decided to replace with a $550.00 one.

I'm just using that same setup to test show folks just how robust the open-top platform really is . . . when setup correctly . . . like a Colt.

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

Precisely my point!!!

You don't have to shoot "mouse fart" loads . . . With a Kirst drop in or gated conversion, you can shoot any normal, off the shelf ammo you want. The instructions say 1000 fps loads . . . there isn't any off the shelf 250gr that are 1000 fps.

What you had was a $200.00 45C revolver that you decided to replace with a $550.00 one.

Mike

No I had a $350 Italian Walker that works awesomely as a percussion revolver and added a $550 .45 LC Vaquero to shoot all the .45 LC I could ever need #winning

I sold the cylinder to someone who needed it way more than me

There's a tool for each job but a Crescent wrench can still bang in a nail for a determined person I guess

I can see converting guns to .22 to allow cheap training but it costs more to handload .45 LC , let alone buy $1-2 a pop factory ammo than to use them with a clean burning sub like 777 or American Pioneer which is pretty much semi-smokeless powder that runs clean and pay half the price per round to shoot them as percussions

If I want to shoot smokeless ammo I have guns made for smokeless ammo. Even the Uberti .38 Richards-Mason I bought for about $600 is the same as a Uberti 1851 Navy and a Kirst Konverter.

Do what you want, have fun, I'm just curious as to the logic behind converting cap guns to cartridge

 

[45D]

No I had a $350 Italian Walker that works awesomely as a percussion revolver and added a $550 .45 LC Vaquero to shoot all the .45 LC I could ever need #winning

I sold the cylinder to someone who needed it way more than me

There's a tool for each job but a Crescent wrench can still bang in a nail for a determined person I guess

Oh, I get it . You got rid of the "cheap" $200.00 cylinder (crescent wrench) which turned your Walker into a 45C and replaced it with $550.00 Ruger 45C .
Whatever floats yer boat . . .
( maybe a better conversion cylinder would have made the difference).

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Funny thing is . . . there's a guy that has explained more than a few times that it is purely testing for the open-top platform. To load ammo that will eventually show how a "correct by design" open-top will hold up. You can't do that with b.p.
This particular forum won't allow pictures ( well, MY pictures) of my testing "equipment" which consists of 2 Uberti '60 Army's and 2 Uberti Dragoons. SOME folks may be interested in how far their preferred "open-top" can go before showing signs of pressure limits . . . exactly like has been done with "hot rodded" calibers before . . . which brought about the "magnum" ammo and revolvers that shoot them.
Some folks understand that Italian copies aren't built according to Colt design while others apparently think Colt got it wrong and the Italians are "all that".
So, no mystery here. If folks would read the whole post ( or posts) rather than " pick and choose", they might understand the process.
Conversions are historically correct but some here would rather decide for others what they should shoot and how they should spend their money. Even factory Conversions are in need of "tuning" and "correction".
I figure, if it's something you're not "into", don't comment. I don't even look at anything referring to flintlock/ percussion single shot rifles/pistols . . . not interested in the least . . . been there/ done that.

Mike

That's not exactly correct either as original conversions were still loaded with BP in cartridges not smokeless even in the 73 Colts which are solid frame. True smokeless powder in cartridges did not show up until the mid 1890s if my information is correct. The precursor was called semi-smokeless and was first used in the late Schutzen era I believe.
I already did , I guess you forgot about the 60 I over hauled with all the photos of each procedure, setting it up just as you prescribe with end fit arbor, tight gap and new closely fit wedge and guess what it still will flex.

 

[Pete453]

But I have wondered why a person , any person, not any 1 person in particular...... would "mod" an Italian reproduction percussion revolver to shoot .45 LC "Ruger Only " loads when Ruger themselves make guns such as the beautiful .45 LC Bisley Blackhawk that will handle such loads all day long

Knowledge for knowledge sake, Stan. Testing limits. Just like building a car to test a speed theory. Sometimes just proving to yourself it can be done, for your own edification and amusement. Does there really need to be any more reason than that?

 

[45D]

That's not exactly correct either as original conversions were still loaded with BP in cartridges not smokeless even in the 73 Colts which are solid frame. True smokeless powder in cartridges did not show up until the mid 1890s if my information is correct. The precursor was called semi-smokeless and was first used in the late Schutzen era I believe.
I already did , I guess you forgot about the 60 I over hauled with all the photos of each procedure, setting it up just as you prescribe with end fit arbor, tight gap and new closely fit wedge and guess what it still will flex.

I don't believe I said anything about using black powder cartridges. Don't want to . . . don't have a reason to . . . Like I said, you can't test the open-top boundaries using b.p.

As far as your '60, I'm sure it probably does flex. Mine don't.

I tried looking your posts up to see the pics but couldn't find it. Nonetheless, I think if that one flexs, you messed up.
If you can, post the pics here and let's have a look.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

I don't believe I said anything about using black powder cartridges. Don't want to . . . don't have a reason to . . . Like I said, you can't test the open-top boundaries using b.p.

As far as your '60, I'm sure it probably does flex. Mine don't.

I tried looking your posts up to see the pics but couldn't find it. Nonetheless, I think if that one flexs, you messed up.
If you can, post the pics here and let's have a look.

Mike

I believe you were commenting on what I was showing in the thread so they must be here somewhere in the archives.
And your right, I don't believe yours don't flex given the same test.

 

[45D]

I believe you were commenting on what I was showing in the thread so they must be here somewhere in the archives.
And your right, I don't believe yours don't flex given the same test.

I'll look in my own posts and see.

As far as you believing if mine "flexes or not", that's ok we're even. I apparently can't push the butt of my revolver and detect my frame flexing (unless it won't) but i did check a customer's revolver and it was obvious ( thought i posted that). A perfect wedge will eventually get beaten up (because of the flexing). My wedges don't get beaten up shooting what I shoot because my revolvers won't allow it.

Mike

I looked and found where you were working with the transom fitting. Then you had an accident and the thread ends.

 

[M. De Land]

I'll look in my own posts and see.

As far as you believing if mine "flexes or not", that's ok we're even. I apparently can't push the butt of my revolver and detect my frame flexing (unless it won't) but i did check a customer's revolver and it was obvious ( thought i posted that). A perfect wedge will eventually get beaten up (because of the flexing). My wedges don't get beaten up shooting what I shoot because my revolvers won't allow it.

Mike

I looked and found where you were working with the transom fitting. Then you had an accident and the thread ends.

Yeah, cut my middle finger off in a table saw. It kinda put a kink in my gun work for awhile but I'm back in action again.
There just isn't any way you can make an open frame gun as rigid as a solid frame, not even you !

 

[45D]

Yap, believe whatever you want.

Sorry you lost a finger.

Mike

 

[mushka]

People for better or worse, do things for the pleasure of doing them and to be able to say that they did them.

 

[Pete453]

People for better or worse, do things for the pleasure of doing them and to be able to say that they did them.

Mushka nailed it. This is why we do what we're passionate about. Says it all

 

[Relic shooter]

Speaking as just a third party forum member & ardent pistol shooter & log time revolver mechanic, 45D aka Mike has gone out of his way to post "excellent illustrations" to show us how to improve the performance of our C&B revolvers & has shown me a few new tricks.
I shoot mostly original pistols & revolvers. Modifications I've done to my replica's have been to bring them up to standards of the originals. Thankfully,, some of the newer revolver manufacturers have finally adopted faster twist rifling to improve accuracy.
If someone has a better idea, show us
Relic shooter

 

[M. De Land]

Yap, believe whatever you want.

Sorry you lost a finger.

Mike

Ah, they sewed her back on and it looks pretty much like a finger again but lost most of the sensitivity.
I just finished an open top Franken revolver with convertible cylinder and loading gate panel a friend picked up at an estate sale that takes cartridges. 45 Colt rounds drop in but are to long for the cylinder sticking out the front end and won't load through the gate so I'm thinking it must have been set up for a Scofield cartridge. It's labeled .44 but the bore slugs .45 cal. Got me scratching my head.
I had to stretch the hand and clear the apparent false loading gate channel of some hung over steel to clear the cylinder so it would revolve into lock up. Never seen this conversion before and wonder why the gate that does not seem to have clearance enough to load through.
I haven't got nor tried a Scoffield cartridge through the gate yet but doubt it will load through it.

 

[45D]

Might need to pm me some pics.

Mike

 

[Relic shooter]

Ah, thy sewed her back on and it looks pretty much like a finger again but lost most of the sensitivity.
I just finished an open top Franken revolver with convertible cylinder and loading gate panel a friend picked up at an estate sale that takes cartridges. 45 Colt rounds drop in but are to long for the cylinder sticking out the front end and won't load through the gate so I'm thinking it must have been set up for a Scofield cartridge. It's labeled .44 but the bore slugs .45 cal. Got me scratching my head.
I had to stretch the hand and clear the apparent false loading gate channel of some hung over steel to clear the cylinder so it would revolve into lock up. Never seen this conversion before and wonder why the gate that does not seem to have clearance enough to load through.
I haven't got nor tried a Scoffield cartridge through the gate yet but doubt it will load through it.

Hey, we all want to see this critter if it's not forbidden territory !

 

[Mike in FL]

That is the fellow who makes videos for Pedersoli. He knows his stuff!