20ga fowler - an all around muzzleloader?

[Wes/Tex]

Both .56 and .62 bored smoothbores are so close that there's not a massive difference in the capabilities of the two. The thing about the longer fowlers are their balance and swingability(if that's even a real word). I don't know, but there's something about the feel their ability to shoot out there.

 

[Spikebuck]

I do not hunt waterfowl, so if I were to have just one gun, it would be the smooth RIFLE in 62 caliber. This gives me the feel of a rifle with both front and rear sights with the versatility of the smooth bore for shot or ball. I haven't worked on ball loads a whole lot, but have gotten a load that will do 2 1/2" bench rested at 50 yards. I haven't tried further than that and when I stopped working on the load for the year it was getting better with each 5 gr powder increase. So I might be able to squeeze a bit more out of it with something above 80 grs of 2F...don't know. Mine has a swamped 42" barrel.

Downside...heavier to lug around than a nice Oct-to-Round fowling gun. Can't have everything.

 

[MSW]

I have been working on making my .56 smooth rifle into a do it all gun, but ya'll are certainly selling me on the 20 gauge.

haven't had a chance to formally pattern the 20 gauge which Mr. Hoyt bored out from a conked out .54 on my Renegade, but I did try some PRB... nothing formal - just plinking ... the soda cans are claiming a Geneva Hague violation, and pie tins cringe whenever I open the cupboard...

:rotf:

go with a twenty smooth and a forty rifled (so far, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...)

make good smoke!

 

[Lonegun1894]

My .54 is just a flint Lyman GPR with a 32" GM smoothbore barrel fitted to it. So this is definitely a "smooth rifle" and not a fowler. Handling wise, think more like a heavy barreled slug gun (if thinking shotguns) or a rifle with no rifling in it, but it does have both front and rear sights like any other rifle. My loads are:

Light: 55grs FFFG, 3 cards, 3/4 oz #6 shot, 1 card

Heavy: 70 grs FFFg, 2 cards, 6" jute twine nest, 2 more cards, 1.5oz #6 shot, 1 card

PRB: 80grs FFFg, 4 cards, patched .527" ball

I have also been playing with a .515" RB mold I picked up and the load I use with it is 80grs FFFg, and then just the PRB as with any other rifle, skipping the cards. The reason for the cards with the .527" RB was that the patching is so thin that I couldn't find any kind of lube that was sufficient to prevent burn through with the flimsy patch. The .515" RB allows use of standard pillow ticking, so lube is no longer a problem. Accuracy is equal so I will probably stop using the .527"RB.

Just remember that the loads I listed are for MY gun, which has a full length straight octagon barrel that is 15/16" across the flats, so if you end up with a light fowler barrel on yours, it may not be a good idea (or safe) to directly copy them. As to turkey loads for this .54, I would trust the heavy load listed above out to about 25yards, and MAYBE to 30yds if everything felt perfect, but this gun is completely unchoked, so if you have any choke that should extend your range somewhat. I prefer the cylinder bore because I probably shoot more PRB than shot in mine. Don't laugh too hard, but I intend to use this .54 loaded with 80grs FFFg and the .515" PRB this year, and trust the gun to about 65 yds with this load on a turkey size target, but hoping to get quite a bit closer. You said you're in Texas also, so please check your regs for the county you intend to hunt. I am in Waco, McLennan County, and I am allowed to use a rifle during the fall season, but it is SHOTGUN ONLY for the spring season. Now the regs don't say anywhere that I have to use any set shot size, or weight of shot load, or that I even have to fire multiple projectiles out of my shotgun, so I can fire anything I want, as long as I fire it out of a shotgun. So I am legal to use a single PRB this spring. If I decide to use my 13ga, I will have one barrel loaded with #6 shot and the other with a .690" PRB. BTW, if you're ever this way and want to try mine, you're welcome to. And my 13ga loaded with 75grs FFFg and the .690" PRB, or the 65grs FFFg and 1oz of #6s recoils less than my 20ga Mossberg 500, but about the same as the same Mossberg when loaded up to 75gr FFFg and 1 7/8oz of #6s. Now the heavy shot load is above what the manufacturer recommended for mine, but it patterns well so I use it, but worked up slowly. So don't be scared of a larger bore if you decide the .54 is too small for you, after all, it is YOUR money and not anyone elses that you're spending.

If you pass through this way, let me know and I will meet you if my work schedule allows. They get kinda goofy at some times of the year, but I'll try.

Here's a couple old thread that I saved in my favorites for the lists of other shooters loads listed. I hope they help.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...t/1254027/hl/13ga+loads/fromsearch/1/#1254027
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...t/1137116/hl/13ga+loads/fromsearch/1/#1137116

 

[JJ June]

You make a point Dan. But that said, I've shot N. America with a old flat top Ruger .44 mag -Polar Bears excepted. I had one cylinder hole bored out straight. I turned down the rim of 303 British brass, trimmed them them even with the end of the cylinder. Loaded with Unique and #6 shot they made a great Ptarmigan, fool hen and( in the states) a snake load. Then did it again with a .358 Norma mag. That was the most versitile rifle I ever owned. The .44 mag was a wonderful and versatile cartridge, only surpassed by Rugers .480. All that burned down in a prairie fire a couple of years ago. Hense the start over with a new, for me, game called muzzleloading. To me, it nolonger is the kill, been there done that in spades, but about the hunt, enjoyment of the natural world, and the companionship in camp.

 

[Billnpatti]

A smoothbore should probably be limited to no more than about 75 yards for deer size game. Actually 50 yards is a better range for it. A smoothbore will be almost as accurate as a rifle out to about 50 yards and it is still good for groups within "minute of deer" out to 75 yards. If the deer is more than 75 yards from you, just take pleasure in letting him live a while longer. It has plenty of killing power well beyond those ranges but not the needed accuracy to insure a clean kill. But, you are right, a smoothbore is an all around weapon capable of shooting shot loads for small game and birds and round balls for deer size game. Get a good one and you will really enjoy it. If you enjoy developing a load for a gun, you will certainly enjoy your smoothbore because you will need to find the round ball load it wants and then the shot load it wants. You have tons a fun ahead of you. You will love it.

 

[JJ June]

Oh yes, that's the direction I was going. We have a paucity of turkeys in Potter County which are available to me but lots of them over toward Collingsworth county toward the OK state line. Good goose and crane hunting locally due to the world of grain fields waving golden in the morning sun and spreading to the horizon - which is a long ways off here, hence the leaning to the 20 ga. The .32 would be a wonderful turkey rifle and thought it legal during any turkey season. But the regs change with time, and will review them - it's the least expensive of the alternatives.

A couple of relevant questions:
1) how much choke, if any, can be used in a smooth bore when shooting round balls?
2) what is the point of diminishing returns when upping the powder and shot weights in a 20ga.

 

[JJ June]

50 yards is plenty. In younger days, for a small wager, I have plucked a pinch of hair from Whitetail, Mule Deer, Moose, but never Elk.

Who makes a "good" smoothbore"? Was looking at "Track of the Wolf" English Fowler kit but would prefer a cap lock to flint to minimize the growing pile of ML stuff. - Your thoughts?

 

[JJ June]

You might want to take at North Star West, they make some nice smooth bores, both in finished and kit format.

I'll second this vote for NSW. Laffindog is one of our regulars here and a straight up guy. While Caywood builds a good product, you need to be aware that they have a super strong opinion about vent liners. Don't ask, they won't do it and if you install one the whole warranty goes out the window! guess they're entitled to any opinion they like. If you buy a hand made used gun or decide to order one through a builder, be sure to ask questions about everything...it'll save on surprises on both sides.

Noted you were in Cen- Tex, not Wes (t) Tx. You' re right. They are welcome to their opinion. BUT being from the oil patch where "he who pays gets the say" I guess I'd want what I want. That said, my ignorance on the subject kows no bounds - which is why I'm here. I would have a slight preference for caps over flints. Will google them up.

 

[Billnpatti]

Flintlock? Caplock? It's your choice. Both are fine guns. If you are leaning toward a caplock, that is fine. After all, it will be your gun purchased with your money and it needs to be what you want. Whatever puts a smile on your face it what is right for you. :thumbsup:

I don't know how much choke you can shoot a ball through. Perhaps some one else will have that answer for you. You can use a cylinder choke and use a candle load or make a paper shot cup to tighten up your pattern. You can look up how to make paper shotcups or candle loads or you can PM me and I will explain both of them to you.

My personal preference is a cylinder bore because it is easier to load a cylinder bore than it is to load a choked bore. I have had both and I found that the choke effect can be gotten from a cylinder bored barrel by using such things as paper shot cups or candle loads.

I am not sure just how heavy of a load you can use before blowing your pattern. Actually, there are factors other than just powder charge at work that will effect your pattern. I can tell you that too big of an OP wad can result in it being blown through the middle of your shot string turning it into a doughnut. Even with a relatively thin OP wad, if you put to big of a powder charge with it, it, too, can be blown through your shot string. The time proven optimum powder charge has been a volume equal to the volume of shot that you are using. The amount of powder will depend on the gauge/caliber of your smoothbore.

 

[satx78247]

IF I was limited to just one ML, I would pick a 16 or 20 gauge smoothie, as I regard either firearm as quite suitable for tree rats, bunnies & everything up to & including WT-size game.

ImVho, the 20 gauge is perfectly adequate for WT & hogs to 100KG, if properly loaded with PRB.

yours, satx

 

[Britsmoothy]

You make a point Dan. But that said, I've shot N. America with a old flat top Ruger .44 mag -Polar Bears excepted. I had one cylinder hole bored out straight. I turned down the rim of 303 British brass, trimmed them them even with the end of the cylinder. Loaded with Unique and #6 shot they made a great Ptarmigan, fool hen and( in the states) a snake load. Then did it again with a .358 Norma mag. That was the most versitile rifle I ever owned. The .44 mag was a wonderful and versatile cartridge, only surpassed by Rugers .480. All that burned down in a prairie fire a couple of years ago. Hense the start over with a new, for me, game called muzzleloading. To me, it nolonger is the kill, been there done that in spades, but about the hunt, enjoyment of the natural world, and the companionship in camp.

absolutely :hatsoff:

B.

 

[Ken Cormier]

My. Go too gun is a 20 gau. Tullie takes every thing Maine has to offer

 

[JJ June]

Yup, looked over north Star. I think we may do some business.

I thank all my fellow Texans for their fine suggestions, for you fine folks living on the fringes of this great state - I thank ya'll also. Guess it's time to go shoot a few of your suggestions - given that I've never fired a flinter.

Any of ya'll want some company on a turkey shoot, or just to sip a cup of coffee, give a shout now hear...

Later - JJ

 

[54ball]

Northstar West Has some fine offerings and are fine folks to do business with.

While it's pretty certain that the Northwest Trade Gun has a history in Texas; it has one here in Alabama when it was brought down by the Shawnee before and during the War of 1812, I must mention it's predecessor the Carolina Gun.

The Carolina Gun was traded out of Southern Ports notably Charles Town later Charleston SC and distributed to the Indian tribes of the Old Southwest(now the South East or Deep South) by Scott/English Carolina Traders. Artifacts of these guns have been found all over, from Vermont to Florida and from Georgia to East Texas. The time frame, 1710 possibly earlier to 1780 or the end of the Revolution.
Like a lot of the early Trade Guns, Carolina Guns are often found with rear sights. Here are some links for you.
Link Ghost Gun
Link Mike Brooks
Link Clay Smith
Link Jack Brooks

Now a Smoothbore will never be a rifle but my 13 year old son made a spectacular 72 yard shot on a hog with his 20 bore Clay Smith Carolina. The load was 80grns of 2ff, a bare .610 ball with dried Spanish Moss wads lubed with bee wax and olive oil.

My son's Carolina





Oh, BTW the first shot that gun ever made, my son took the X out of the ten ring at 30 yards.

 

[Alden]

Still a hefty wall on that Carolina type...

Nice shot your little showoff made. LOL Hate hogs!

 

[rickystl]

Hey! Great Thread. Have to agree with everyone above. The 20 gauge smooth bore is super versatile. Especially after you find the load combination it likes. I own two. One in the English style, the other in the French style. Really enjoy shooting them both. The cow's foot butt stock on the French gun takes a little getting use to. And for some it doesn't work at all. But the English style seems to be comfortable with most shooters. Have to say, it's one of my favorite guns. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Just started shooting a 19ga North West Gun myself and feel that I made the right chouce as far as ball size goes, just a fine all around cal/ga.

Also another pitch for Matt at NSW, all around good guy to work with.

As far as flint vs cap gun goes, my flint rifle was completed in '06 and at that time I got rid of my cap guns and concentrated on the flint gun, that was the right choice for me as it has made me a much better all around shot with whatever I pick up now.

Whichever way you go you'll enjoy it as it is an addiction for sure, 99.9% of my post 1840 era firearms sit from year to year.

 

[Lou_D]

now that you mention vent liners what is the general consensus here - vent liner or no vent liner?

 

[hanshi]

I like 'em!