.40 did it then

[tg]

"Where do the States get their information for hunting regs. from? '

I am afraid that for the most part the are guessking or trying to use centerfire data and old itto ffit Ball usage, I doubt that there is much "experience" involved in setting ML regs, the data base has been dormant for a couple of hundred years.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Killed many deer with a .32 patched round ball, hogs too. I still wish to build a .40 barrel to swap out with my .32 crockett, just for grins. Here in the Texas Hill Country we dont need a mountain howitzer to kill whitetails, plenty of them but they aint all that big.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Killed many deer with a .32 patched round ball, hogs too. I still wish to build a .40 barrel to swap out with my .32 crockett, just for grins. Here in the Texas Hill Country we dont need a mountain howitzer to kill whitetails, plenty of them but they aint all that big.

As this is the 2nd post Ive seen from you I will respond.....It is irresponsibe lunacy to suggest taht a .32 is a adecuate deer gun..not sure WHY you want to pin that on your self but I will say pointedly :bull: :bull: :bull:
YES you can kill deer with small caliber arms; I have a friend who in our youth killed a doe with a .22 cal Beeman pellet gun. I saw a doe killed with a TARGET tip'd arrow winged at her that took her in the head. BOTH of these situations, however, were the IRRESPONSIBLE actions of ignorant youth. NOT acceptable hunting standards.
We OWE the animal as quick and human a death as possible and there IS a line where that is the norm or not..I see that the .45 might be "the line" although I wouldnt use it. the .40...is just to iffy and the .32 is flat foolish! Again I am speeking for deer hunting...Not survival situations or "best case scenerio" possibilies.
So if YOU wish to brag about intentionally undergunning for deer its NOT Cool....any more then those who have "bragged" about poaching deer with a .22. :nono:

 

[roundball]

And those kinds of statements are exactly the kind of posts that people like toby bridgers love...they can "cut and paste" and say here's what I just got off of the MLF...an example of what these boys brag about using, etc.

All that these kind of statements point out to me is that people who make them have no general / broad hunting experience...if they did they'd have seen enough to have learned and would never make such claims, without qualifying them with the rest of the story...ie: I shot one deer in the head one time with a .36cal as he came along close while I was sitting squirrel hunting...or I was over looking a corn pile at 20 yards, etc...no reflection what-so-ever on general purpose hunting across changing terrain encountering various size deer at long distances, odd angles, etc.

Yes, the anti-traditionals love posts like those.

 

[KHickam]

But, hunting deer with 00 buck in a shotgun is okay? :shake:

 

[Little Wattsy]

But, hunting deer with 00 buck in a shotgun is okay? :shake:

Dont exactly know cuz I dont hunt that way BUT at close range with a HANDFULL of 00 or 000 buckshot VS a single .32 caliber pellet is vastly differant.
You break into my house and we are looking at each other accross the living room would you rather I grab a single shot .22 or the semi-auto 12 gage stacked with 000 shot?
In all seriousness I would guess that because of the range limitations of a shotgun shooting shot its probably NOT the best option..HOWEVER I would ALSO guess that THAT is EXACTLY why they are desired...in higher populated areas where range is desired to be reduced and yet at close range still a leathel round....

 

[John Wasmuth]

A .32 in the head at 35 yards is a fine way to kill them. If you have issues with your abilities to kill deer cleanly than I would suggest you spend a great deal of time becoming a better shooter. I have no regrets at all about killing any deer with a .32. It does not take a mountain howitzer to cleanly kill a deer. If you can not accomplish it, than dont try it. I however can and will continue to do so as along as I am able to do it thank you very much.
And by the by el que savy todo, I spend a great deal of time putting pouchers in jail, has nothing to do with you having to use a howitzer to kill a deer.

 

[John Wasmuth]

"...I go after them with all possible advantages tilted my way"

Isn't that just a bit contrary to the whole idea of using front-stuffers in the first place? Not trying to be an A-hole or anything, but if I wanted to use all possible advantages, I'd use my buddy's .300 win mag over a feed plot.
[/quote

Not at all...you completely miss the point and your statement about a .300 mag is absurd...we're talking about "muzzleloaders"...and they intentionally come in a wide range of calibers.

The best odds approach for humanely taking game is to match the caliber to the game being hunted to ensure variations of hunting conditions and distances are best covered...that's what is meant by tilting the odds in my favor...reread and comprehend the complete text instead of twisting part of a phrase out of context in an attempt to satisfy some personal view...instead of selectively omitting all my other qualifying comments about the .40cal or any smaller calibers being fine for shorter distances with the patience to wait for the precise shot due their limitations.

The bottom line is that no matter how hard you wish it to be true, small .32/.36/.40cals will never be equal in performance as all around big game calibers considering all the possible variations of hunting conditions like distance, bones, size of the animal, etc...if they were there would be no need for larger calibers like the .45/.50/.54/.56/.58/.62/.69, etc.

If you'd take a 120 yard shot at a deer with a .40cal, that would be completely irresponsible...so stick with your modern .300 mag over bait piles and leave muzzleloading alone. And if you have a different view about a .40cal then state "your" view on its own merits without quoting/twisting what someone else has said out of context to try and serve your needs.

I dont think anyone said that a small caliber black powder rifle was anywhere equal to or near the power of a .300 belted magnum. And under "IDEAL" conditions a small caliber blackpowder round ball will cleanly kill a deer, proven fact. Some of us didnt start doing this yestarday and we actually do know when to squeeze the trigger and when not to. Not everyone is a dimwitted baphoon.

 

[tg]

I think we need to maybe look at this as one of the issues that each indiviual must choose as to what is the min. cal for any game/conditions/add infinitum. There are many different scenarios across the country, it is probably best to qualify ones choice if it is outside the "average" I used a .40 for several years and hunted at bowhunting ranges and took one of the largest bucks I ever shot, centerfire or ML,I watched a lot of deer walk by those years that I would have taken with a larger gun, I knew this would happen when I got the .40 barrel. I would not recomend this cal to a newcommer to ML hunting inless thay came from a strong archery background, and then would suggest a lot of thougt to what their future ML plans were,it never hurts to add a bit more to ones comments so they are not missconstrued when giving thoughts on choices that might influence others, sometimes we may all forget this at times.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I know of a man who grew up during the Depression in Vermont, and fed his extended family using a .32 caliber rifle to kill deer on the farms, taking head shots, and only under 25 yards. He lost count of the deer he killed as a youngster. The families got together to conduct drives, and the women gutted and skinned the hides off, then cut up the meat for "canning", and put up meat that fed the families all through the winter an on into the next summer.

He would be the first shooter to tell you that not everyone is a good enough shot to use this kind of caliber rifle to shoot deer, nor as disciplined a hunter to take only this short ranged shot at game. He was the best shot in his extended family, so he did the killing. The other men dragged the deer out, and did the drives, pushing the deer past him so he could kill them. I have had two-no, three- deer come in close enough to me that I could have killed them with headshots, using a .32.

 

[fyrfyter43]

But, hunting deer with 00 buck in a shotgun is okay? :shake:

Dont exactly know cuz I dont hunt that way BUT at close range with a HANDFULL of 00 or 000 buckshot VS a single .32 caliber pellet is vastly differant.

Like I posted earlier, I have seen alot of deer killed with a single pellet of 00 buck.

I've hunted for nearly 30 years in a state that forbids hunting with centerfire rifles. And the club that I hunted with for 15-20 years did not allow slugs to be used, as we put on drives and did not want anybody shooting slugs when there were drivers in the woods. Many of the deer we killed dropped in their tracks from a single .33 ball, fired at a lower velocity than a ball from a .32 cal. rifle.

I've even once seen a small buck killed by a single pellet of #4 buck (.24"). I remember that one because nobody could believe that a single pellet of #4 buck would have killed that deer. That is, until it was skinned out and there was exactly one hole in the hide.

Based on these experiences and my hunting style, I would have no qualms about using a .32 for deer hunting if it were legal. Of course, years of hunting with buckshot only and with a longbow have taught me to limit my range and to wait for the right shot to present itself.

Most deer that I have killed have been within 20 yards, and I have NEVER taken a shot at a deer over 50 yards.

There is nothing wrong with a larger caliber rifle for deer hunting. In fact, I mostly use a .54. But I also have no doubt that a .32 can do the job if used within its limits.

 

[rdillion]

Good points Paul. When I go into the woods carrying my 40cal I know I will keep my shots within the limits of my rifle and myself. If that 200 lb trophy buck should happen to show himself he will get to walk with no regrets from me. It has happened to me before and I tend to let the big boys walk anyway. I hunt on private land and we don't like to kill our breeding studs. :thumbsup:

 

[Little Wattsy]

But, hunting deer with 00 buck in a shotgun is okay? :shake:

Dont exactly know cuz I dont hunt that way BUT at close range with a HANDFULL of 00 or 000 buckshot VS a single .32 caliber pellet is vastly differant.

Like I posted earlier, I have seen alot of deer killed with a single pellet of 00 buck.

I've hunted for nearly 30 years in a state that forbids hunting with centerfire rifles. And the club that I hunted with for 15-20 years did not allow slugs to be used, as we put on drives and did not want anybody shooting slugs when there were drivers in the woods. Many of the deer we killed dropped in their tracks from a single .33 ball, fired at a lower velocity than a ball from a .32 cal. rifle.

I've even once seen a small buck killed by a single pellet of #4 buck (.24"). I remember that one because nobody could believe that a single pellet of #4 buck would have killed that deer. That is, until it was skinned out and there was exactly one hole in the hide.

Based on these experiences and my hunting style, I would have no qualms about using a .32 for deer hunting if it were legal. Of course, years of hunting with buckshot only and with a longbow have taught me to limit my range and to wait for the right shot to present itself.

Most deer that I have killed have been within 20 yards, and I have NEVER taken a shot at a deer over 50 yards.

There is nothing wrong with a larger caliber rifle for deer hunting. In fact, I mostly use a .54. But I also have no doubt that a .32 can do the job if used within its limits.

I hear what you are saying and yet I say again that the phrase "_____ can do the job if used within its limits" Does NOT equate to ethical or respnsible hunting. Ill share again the example of a deer being killed by a .22 pellet....Obviously it was "used within its limits" in that case. YET NOT a responsible hunting weapon.
We have discussed in length the irresponsinility of "head shots" with ML's on deer....and some will say that THEY are just that dam good...It all reminds me of a teenager screaming down the road in a car just KNOWING that his reflexes are "that dam good" and it works just fine untill theres a wreck..
Theres a phrase "Theres never a problem untill theres a problem" hunting offers enough opportunity to lose wounded game or make a poor shot under the best of circumstances. Useing a squirl gun on deer will only enhance that and when, not IF, the day comes that a deer is inhumanely killed or lost when a reasonably larger calliber would have put it down then THAT is the day that said .32 should but planted in that hunters but! :2

 

[John Wasmuth]

Very true TG, I wouldnt use the .32 each and every time I went out after a whitetail, just on selected deer under what can be thought of as "Ideal" situations, up close and personal. Anything that does not come within the shooting range for that rifle does not get the hammer dropped on it. And practice, practice, practice. Its the only way to get good at it. People can say BS all they want. From many many years of hunting with sub .45 cal's I can say that its where ya place the shot. There are those I suppose that figure that you shouldnt hunt whitetail with anything smaller than a 1.00" using a 800 grain ball, and then be prepaired to call in an airstrike once you shoot, in case the monster brute killer deerzilla scampers off, but no, deer are a lot easier to kill than most people give them credit for.

New guys can rest assured that I wouldnt send them out into the wilds of Texas with anything less than a .50 and if they cant hit a pie plate at 100 yards, they simply dont go hunting. I wouldnt ever think of going after a Michigan buck with a .32, no way. Too big. Our doe deer here average 100 pounds, Bucks about 150. But I only shoot doe with the .32 and as I said, up close and personal. And yer right again TG, always best to point certain specifics out. :thumbsup:

 

[John Wasmuth]

Field points, .22 pellets, and the like are illegal here in Texas................
Enough said. You hunt the LEGAL means you hunt with, I'll hunt the LEGAL means I hunt with and always have good luck to ya sir.

 

[rdillion]

It always amazes me how fast a deer goes down after being shot with a two blade Zwickey Eskimo out of my 46 lb Black Widow bow. As you said the deer down here are not that big.

 

[fyrfyter43]

But, hunting deer with 00 buck in a shotgun is okay? :shake:

Dont exactly know cuz I dont hunt that way BUT at close range with a HANDFULL of 00 or 000 buckshot VS a single .32 caliber pellet is vastly differant.

Like I posted earlier, I have seen alot of deer killed with a single pellet of 00 buck.

I've hunted for nearly 30 years in a state that forbids hunting with centerfire rifles. And the club that I hunted with for 15-20 years did not allow slugs to be used, as we put on drives and did not want anybody shooting slugs when there were drivers in the woods. Many of the deer we killed dropped in their tracks from a single .33 ball, fired at a lower velocity than a ball from a .32 cal. rifle.

I've even once seen a small buck killed by a single pellet of #4 buck (.24"). I remember that one because nobody could believe that a single pellet of #4 buck would have killed that deer. That is, until it was skinned out and there was exactly one hole in the hide.

Based on these experiences and my hunting style, I would have no qualms about using a .32 for deer hunting if it were legal. Of course, years of hunting with buckshot only and with a longbow have taught me to limit my range and to wait for the right shot to present itself.

Most deer that I have killed have been within 20 yards, and I have NEVER taken a shot at a deer over 50 yards.

There is nothing wrong with a larger caliber rifle for deer hunting. In fact, I mostly use a .54. But I also have no doubt that a .32 can do the job if used within its limits.

I hear what you are saying and yet I say again that the phrase "_____ can do the job if used within its limits" Does NOT equate to ethical or respnsible hunting.

So, to be a responsible and ethical hunter one needs only use a larger caliber rifle?

By your reasoning, I am an irresponsible and unethical hunter for using a longbow and wooden arrows to hunt deer when I could instead be using the latest whiz-bang training wheel bow or arrow-gun. Maybe instead of a .54 I should be using a 2-bore? Or maybe I should forget about the muzzleloader and not even think about going into the woods without the latest super-magnum. Do you think maybe a .50BMG is enough gun for east coast whitetails?

A responsible and ethical hunter would not take a questionable shot, no matter what weapon he is using.

What is the difference between a deer wounded at 100 yards with a .58 when the hunter's true effective range is only, say, 50 yards...and a deer wounded at 50 yards with a .32 that shouldn't have been used for a shot past 30 yards? Is the hunter that wounded a deer at 100 yards more ethical and responsible just because he was hunting with a small cannon? If a hunter doesn't know his own limitations and those of his weapon, then he is irresponsible, no matter what caliber rifle he happens to be carrying.

It's a sad day when ethics and responsibility are measured by the weapon you carry hunting, rather than the decisions you make about how to use that weapon.

 

[Little Wattsy]

But, hunting deer with 00 buck in a shotgun is okay? :shake:

Dont exactly know cuz I dont hunt that way BUT at close range with a HANDFULL of 00 or 000 buckshot VS a single .32 caliber pellet is vastly differant.

Like I posted earlier, I have seen alot of deer killed with a single pellet of 00 buck.

I've hunted for nearly 30 years in a state that forbids hunting with centerfire rifles. And the club that I hunted with for 15-20 years did not allow slugs to be used, as we put on drives and did not want anybody shooting slugs when there were drivers in the woods. Many of the deer we killed dropped in their tracks from a single .33 ball, fired at a lower velocity than a ball from a .32 cal. rifle.

I've even once seen a small buck killed by a single pellet of #4 buck (.24"). I remember that one because nobody could believe that a single pellet of #4 buck would have killed that deer. That is, until it was skinned out and there was exactly one hole in the hide.

Based on these experiences and my hunting style, I would have no qualms about using a .32 for deer hunting if it were legal. Of course, years of hunting with buckshot only and with a longbow have taught me to limit my range and to wait for the right shot to present itself.

Most deer that I have killed have been within 20 yards, and I have NEVER taken a shot at a deer over 50 yards.

There is nothing wrong with a larger caliber rifle for deer hunting. In fact, I mostly use a .54. But I also have no doubt that a .32 can do the job if used within its limits.

I hear what you are saying and yet I say again that the phrase "_____ can do the job if used within its limits" Does NOT equate to ethical or respnsible hunting.

So, to be a responsible and ethical hunter one needs only use a larger caliber rifle?

By your reasoning, I am an irresponsible and unethical hunter for using a longbow and wooden arrows to hunt deer when I could instead be using the latest whiz-bang training wheel bow or arrow-gun. Maybe instead of a .54 I should be using a 2-bore? Or maybe I should forget about the muzzleloader and not even think about going into the woods without the latest super-magnum. Do you think maybe a .50BMG is enough gun for east coast whitetails?

A responsible and ethical hunter would not take a questionable shot, no matter what weapon he is using.

What is the difference between a deer wounded at 100 yards with a .58 when the hunter's true effective range is only, say, 50 yards...and a deer wounded at 50 yards with a .32 that shouldn't have been used for a shot past 30 yards? Is the hunter that wounded a deer at 100 yards more ethical and responsible just because he was hunting with a small cannon? If a hunter doesn't know his own limitations and those of his weapon, then he is irresponsible, no matter what caliber rifle he happens to be carrying.

It's a sad day when ethics and responsibility are measured by the weapon you carry hunting, rather than the decisions you make about how to use that weapon.

Tsk, Tsk... :nono: Your archery analogy is poor because all three types of bows will make the same size hole.....Try inserting field tip for broad head and then try to convince me that "its where ya hit em" that counts...THATS the differance. OBVIOUSLY ethics covers FAR MORE than gun calliber BUT it DOES Include it....To be ethical in all areas of the hunt EXCEPT your choice of weapon is NOT ethical still....Sorta like spotlighting with a tag and all the "legal gear"....
All being said at some point we all sleep with our own consciense, assumeing that we have one. Me? Ill never worry about a deer comprimised because my pride had me falsy convinced that a squirl gun was good enough. :youcrazy:

 

[John Wasmuth]

:yakyak:
It is ethical, if one has the capabilities to do it, legal as well. I aint the one used a field point on a deer, which is illegal in every state I can think of, or used an illegal projectile, to-wit: a .22 caliber pellet fired from an air rifle, against the law as well. So its kinda odd that you have knowledge of these two felonies but failed, very unethical, to report said crimes. IE, Pouching, but anyone that uses a small caliber legal black powder rifle to kill deer at close ranges is "Unethical"? Uh, ya, sure. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.
I dont wrestle with sus scrufa. I'm done with it.

 

[ozark57]

Y'all it all comes down to knowing you and your weapons capabilities. The longest I ever saw a deer run was one gut shot with a .300 Win. mag.Taking a shot with a .40 at 60 yards is no different than taking one with a .54 at 125 or one at 50 with a bow. You,the hunter are responsible.
Caliber and power dosn't make up for lack of skill.