.40 did it then

[fyrfyter43]

You sure have better luck than me. I have never had a DRT with out shoulder , spine ,ect hit. Wish I was lucky enough to get one of those 9 or 12 or what ever pellets to DRT a deer. Seems like if the range was close enought to put one in the boiler room their would be more hits? Buckshot is illegal here so I have no experance with it. :idunno: Larry

It's funny how some folks have such different experiences. Besides bow kills, I have never had a deer go more than 2 steps except for one that was hit too far back with a slug. That doe went about 40-50 yards with a shot to the hindquarters that took out her femoral artery.

Like I said, I did alot of hunting with a club that put on drives all day long for the entire 6-day firearms season, as well as the 3 antlerless days. We usually shot so many deer that we couldn't hunt all 3 antlerless days, as you were only allowed to take 2 deer with the antlerless permits.

Most shots were at running deer, so I'm not surprised at how many were killed by just a single pellet of 00 buck. A single .33 ball travelling at around 1100-1200 fps is easily fatal to a whitetail. I don't recall ever having to look for a wounded deer, nor do I recall coming across any that were killed but never recovered. I worked for the 2 farmers who owned most of the land we hunted, so I would have likely known about any un-recovered deer.

 

[fyrfyter43]

You're dealing with thinking which on the one hand tries to defend a tiny .40cal as a great deer caliber in the ML world, yet some of the same posters use a .300 win mag as a centerfire deer rifle.
The obvious flaw in that logic is that they are in 100% direct conflict with each other.

Ummm, I don't know if you're talking about me, but I have NEVER hunted with a centerfire rifle at all. In fact, I don't own, and never have owned a single centerfire rifle.

I have hunted all my life with shotguns, longbows and muzzleloaders.

And I have never taken a shot at an animal over 50 yards. In fact, the vast majority have been shot at under 20 yards. The doe that I killed this year at about 35-40 yards is one of the longest shots I have ever taken at a deer.

 

[ozark57]

Wow, 100 responses.
Aside from fussing and minor name calling, I think we did get some facts out of this.

1. Many to most of the the guns of the ML period, at least in the South, were of around .40.

2. Your gun had to do it all, they were not like us with several to choose from. Squirrel to deer it had to do.

3.Shot placement and hunter skill are more important than caliber, part of skill is knowing the limits of your gun.

4.As far as ethics go, a decision by a hunter with a .54 to shoot at a deer at 125 yards is as much, or more, shakey than a 75 yard shot with a .40. Power is but one consideration in this, open sights and distance play greatly in long shots.

5.At the same range, a larger ball does have more energy and more killing power, however if this increased energy advantage is used to increase the range proportionaly,then accurate shot placement will be more difficult.

Since we live in a ballistic world which ends in 1865, inovation is not our goal. Defending what we do and have may be more important than fussing over the validity of smaller calibers for deer. I read an article by Toby Bridges in Muzzuleloading magazine at the book store ( I would not have payed for it) and can say only that we must be diligent in the next few years if we want to keep our place in the firearms ( and hunting) world.
The PRB " did it then". We should all agree on this.

 

[luieb45]

I found out that in my area most of the rifles were .45 to .50 cal. It makes sense because we had a large variety of game. We had deer, turkeys, timberwolves, and mountain lions. Before the war of 1812 we even had buffalo, bears, and elk. I wouldn't want to be stuck with a .40 cal with all of those things out there.

 

[Coot]

Wow, 100 responses.
Aside from fussing and minor name calling, I think we did get some facts out of this.

1. Many to most of the the guns of the ML period, at least in the South, were of around .40.

Many to most of the southern ML guns were around .40? When & where come into play here. In the colonial era, they seem to be significantly larger. A check of southern rifles in Shumway gives an average caliber of .51 with only one .40 & nothing smaller. Less than 20% of the southern rifles in his books are smaller than .45 & 2/3 are .50 & over. Perhaps later going into the percussion era the calibers were closer to .40

 

[roundball]

Many to most of the southern ML guns were around .40?
When & where come into play here.
In the colonial era, they seem to be significantly larger. A check of southern rifles in Shumway gives an average caliber of .51 with only one .40 & nothing smaller. Less than 20% of the southern rifles in his books are smaller than .45 & 2/3 are .50 & over. Perhaps later going into the percussion era the calibers were closer to .40

Agree...a smattering of posted opinions are hardly 'facts'...they're opinions...vetted reference documents are the closest thing to facts available.
Another example: I see that the range of a .40cal as a routine deer caliber has now been extended all the way out to 75 yards...what is the factual basis for that?

 

[John Wasmuth]

That settles it. I'm never leavin fer deer huntin without a 1.00 diameter ball again. Lordy knows nothin short of that can kill a deer. I think I will have a couple blackhawks with chain guns standing by just in case. :thumbsup:

 

[caionneach]

I purchased a set of .36 cal maxi ball moulds just so I could try them out on deer. Now I'm not sure what I can and can't do here in Louisiana.

410-er stated:
>If we could use a 40 here in PA.,I would.If we could use the 36,I would.

 

[Homesteader]

Kenneth, every state has different laws. Go to your state's Dept of Natural Resources website and check it out.

 

[John Wasmuth]

What Homesteader said. Check your local game laws. A .36 at 40 yards or less, with a well placed head shot will flaten a southern whitetail dead on the ground, period. Dont take a mountain howitzer to kill a freakin southern whitetail. Last time I checked they hadnt been issued kevlar.

 

[nkbj]

Once they are all going in one direction then the herd itself bumps indivuals into going along. It does my heart good to see a person rise above that.

 

[Zonie]

Perhaps, as you say, "a well placed head shot will flaten a southern whitetail dead on the ground".

But you must admit, the target area is quite small.

A miss of 1 1/2 inches could result in a broken jaw, a partially blown away nose or a blown out eyeball, neither of which would kill the deer immediately.

It might take several weeks for the deer to die from starvation, predators or infection.

IMO, a miss of 1 1/2 inches with a .45 or .50 caliber gun aimed at the center of the chest cavity would not be a major error and would result in a much more humane death.
After all, the miss of the heart will still take out the lungs and very likely many of the arteries.

This is the prime reason I cannot condone using undersized rifles for headshots, and, I suspect I'm not alone in this belief.

 

[caionneach]

I figured with the mass of a .36 cal conical like the maxi ball that the terminal energy would be way more than sufficient to provide the kind of killing force even without a head shot. I don't think a conical for the .40 cal exists unless one has it custom made.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Perhaps, as you say, "a well placed head shot will flaten a southern whitetail dead on the ground".

But you must admit, the target area is quite small.

A miss of 1 1/2 inches could result in a broken jaw, a partially blown away nose or a blown out eyeball, neither of which would kill the deer immediately.

It might take several weeks for the deer to die from starvation, predators or infection.

IMO, a miss of 1 1/2 inches with a .45 or .50 caliber gun aimed at the center of the chest cavity would not be a major error and would result in a much more humane death.
After all, the miss of the heart will still take out the lungs and very likely many of the arteries.

This is the prime reason I cannot condone using undersized rifles for headshots, and, I suspect I'm not alone in this belief.

Exactly!! :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[redwing]

Damn good advise. :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

": I see that the range of a .40cal as a routine deer caliber has now been extended all the way out to 75 yards...what is the factual basis for that"

I suspect that was a number picked out of the air for referencing, I hunted for several years with a .400 ball and prefered 40 yds maybe a bit more if all things felt good, 25-30 yds shots were the bread and butter so to speak,the effective range of any ball size will vary with different hunters, I have seen some claim a .50 was good for a lot farther than I could even get a good sight picture with primitive sights when my eyes were sharp.I think the ability to error on the side of caution is a good plan for any ML hunter whatever he uses.I do believ that most of Schumways guns in the RCA set are likely pre1800 maybe a bit older, I did not see much for late flint period as I recall,there are some who theorize that even many of the earlier gun were of a smaller bore and we have the results of freshed many barrrels that we use for our research.

 

[John Wasmuth]

If you cant hit a deer in the head at 35 or so yards with your rifle, "Your" being a general use of the word and not intended to include you as an individual, have to make things really clear these days, then perhaps you should stay at home and not hunt at all because what if you miss, what if you just ever so slightly miss and what then, my goodness, if all I ever thought about was missing and failure I'd miss all the time.

Look, if all this worry aboy missing plays into your mind then you will ALWAYS FAIL period. I'm glad my ancestors didnt have this feeble thought process of FAILURE. I dont know about you but my family hunted to survive, wasnt a hobby or a pass time.

Boils down to this:
Know your rifle and its limitations, stay with in those areas and your fine. Dwell on hand wringing "I'm gona fail" and thats exactly where yer headed.
I'm not so sure about you Ah-ma-chamee, Means friend in muskogean, I dont aim to miss, I aim to hit and if I am not completely, note the word "Completely" sure of my shot, I aint taken it and will wait for the next one.

 

[squirrellluck]

Kenneth, I believe the law says 45 cal or larger but I havent checked this year.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Not in Texas, aint no minimum cal law. Just hasta load from the front end. Any cylinders they say it aint a ML.
They nay sayers can thump their shoulders all they want, dont wanta use a small cal, no big deal, dont care one way or the other, use what ya want. If ya cant shoot well enough to use a smallbore, aint my problem. I know I use one when I want and how I want and we eat well.

 

[squirrellluck]

Believe he said Louisiana. Over here in La. I believe the min is 45cal. I shoulda specified what state I was from. As to this discussion I have no problem with your choice of weapon. If you are using it withen the limits of the guns ability I see no problem. Ethics are only as good as the hunter's honesty with himself as to his abilities. I know my limits not someone elses.