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Simple solution......
1. buy the powder
2. buy a flintlock
3. live happily ever after.
:grin:
1. buy the powder
2. buy a flintlock
3. live happily ever after.
:grin:
-
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4F Blackpowder uses?
- Thread starter Cowboy
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The point is that I will go through a case of 2 and 3 F long before I even put a dent in a can of 4 F and will happily trade one for the other.
Actually I now prefer the Meal- D from Goex for my priming powder.
Actually I now prefer the Meal- D from Goex for my priming powder.
rodwha
58 Cal.
A curator for a museum took apart several cartridges from the 1880's ranging from .32 to .44 caliber and found nothing larger than 4F and some with finer.
The Civila War paper cartridges using Hazard's Pistol Powder were taken apart, as well as tested, and it was found to be of 4F granulation and about as powerful as Swiss.
Swiss' site shows 4F for handguns. They show 2 and 3F for .45 cal rifles and up.
Historically 4F was used in more than just small caliber handguns or flash pans.
*EDIT*
As no manufacturer states to use 4F other than Ruger so I certainly wouldn't suggest it. And as 3F Olde Eynsford and Triple 7 give plenty of power I see no need to use 4F in anything but maybe a small caliber handgun, and maybe a flash pan, though plenty of people get great ignition using 3F.
The Civila War paper cartridges using Hazard's Pistol Powder were taken apart, as well as tested, and it was found to be of 4F granulation and about as powerful as Swiss.
Swiss' site shows 4F for handguns. They show 2 and 3F for .45 cal rifles and up.
Historically 4F was used in more than just small caliber handguns or flash pans.
*EDIT*
As no manufacturer states to use 4F other than Ruger so I certainly wouldn't suggest it. And as 3F Olde Eynsford and Triple 7 give plenty of power I see no need to use 4F in anything but maybe a small caliber handgun, and maybe a flash pan, though plenty of people get great ignition using 3F.
Cpl. Ashencheeks
40 Cal.
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It could probably also be use in old timey photography if mixed with something to brighten the flash.
Cpl. Ashencheeks
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I was sort of joking about the photography flash powder, but it held enough interest to look up some recipes. Seems to be extremely dangerous stuff. Impact sensitive potassium permanganate and metal shavings.
As far as applicable black powder recipes for it, I couldn't really find anything. I have left over flash pots from 4th of July, I think these are black powder based and super bright.
Since we are considering what could 4f be used for, IMHO it is still best to consider getting a flintlock and use it up for that..
As far as applicable black powder recipes for it, I couldn't really find anything. I have left over flash pots from 4th of July, I think these are black powder based and super bright.
Since we are considering what could 4f be used for, IMHO it is still best to consider getting a flintlock and use it up for that..
I was going to post the same thing (4fg in vintage revolver cartridges), but for the life of me I can't remember where I read it.
If I can ever get the time to go to the range with my BP revolvers (and one modern .45 Colt) and the chronograph, I might cautiously test it out. Don't hold your breath.
If I can ever get the time to go to the range with my BP revolvers (and one modern .45 Colt) and the chronograph, I might cautiously test it out. Don't hold your breath.
hanshi
Cannon
Using 4F in most revolvers is probably just fine but it really shines as flintlock prime. I've fired many pounds of Elephant and killed deer with it and was completely satisfied with it. If the price were right I'd still buy it today. Get all you can afford; there's no such thing as too much powder.
rodwha
58 Cal.
Where 4F really shined was in the paper cartridges with those long conicals that took up the powder capacity for the revolvers. 3F or coarser powders wouldn't have done so well when the charge couldn't be much more than 16-22 grns.
Alden said:
my "suggestion" came straight from the Lynman Blackpowder Handbook. But perhaps because you are Alden, you know more and have tested more than they have. It was simply information passed on for the gentleman to search out for himself.
rodwha
58 Cal.
blackpowder62 said:
Some people here just stick to what they heard when muzzleloading got started again around the 60's and disregard anything else.
Some here lambast you if you do it any other way but theirs.
Some will try to burn you when they have no idea what it is they are talking about.
Some here seem to like to just stir things up as they obviously don't have much else to do.
I must say this forum has it all and is unlike any other forum I've been around. It's one of the greatest due to the people and their experiences/knowledge and the worst with the crazy old man bickering and foolery. It is what it is and it's not what it isn't and I just accept it as that. Some just need a little drama because their rocker is creaky I guess, and they only ever see the mailman go by.
rodwha
58 Cal.
Don't get me wrong as there have been more positive contributions by very helpful people. But there are more "unhelpful" responses here than in the other dozen forums I'm a member of.
This is the one forum that I got the most PRB information from. It's been quite helpful by the majority here.
And here are very FEW people here who just aren't very helpful at all as you'll note he made his reply which he just couldn't help but do, which didn't add one thing to the conversation at all but stir up the drama he is well known for.
*EDIT*
Many of the other firearm forum deal with more modern ways and aren't as helpful or knowledgeable as the majority here. This is THE forum that brought to my attention that the energy figures are misleading, and that the lowley ball is indeed a terrific projectile. Everyone here has something to offer, even Richard, though his id a of shooting percussion revolvers differs from mine. Were he not behaving the way he does and I were interested in match shooting I'd likely ask him many questions as I believe he does indeed have the many trophies he brags about. Of course with the way he has behaved towards me and many others there's no way I'd care to be in the same vicinity as him. He has very bad manners.
This is the one forum that I got the most PRB information from. It's been quite helpful by the majority here.
And here are very FEW people here who just aren't very helpful at all as you'll note he made his reply which he just couldn't help but do, which didn't add one thing to the conversation at all but stir up the drama he is well known for.
*EDIT*
Many of the other firearm forum deal with more modern ways and aren't as helpful or knowledgeable as the majority here. This is THE forum that brought to my attention that the energy figures are misleading, and that the lowley ball is indeed a terrific projectile. Everyone here has something to offer, even Richard, though his id a of shooting percussion revolvers differs from mine. Were he not behaving the way he does and I were interested in match shooting I'd likely ask him many questions as I believe he does indeed have the many trophies he brags about. Of course with the way he has behaved towards me and many others there's no way I'd care to be in the same vicinity as him. He has very bad manners.
Cruzatte
50 Cal.
colorado clyde said:
Where's the "Like" button? :metoo:
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Thank all of you for all the replies. I guess my last question I would like to ask prior to purchasing this Elephant brand BP is when did this company go out of business? I tried to google it to get more info. but found next to nothing about the company. Also did Diamond Back BP Company buy out Elephant BP Company? Also when did Diamond Back BP go out of business? Just wondering for my own curiosity about how old this Elephant BP is I am about to buy? Anyway, I am still going to buy what the Gunshop has. Respectfully, cowboys1062.
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A little goes a long ways so I'd say buy it and use it in all manners of plinking and target shooting.
When you need to magnumize for hunting then use a coarser gradation to keep the pressures down.
But, that's just my way of looking at it and not necessarily what anybody else oughta do.
When you need to magnumize for hunting then use a coarser gradation to keep the pressures down.
But, that's just my way of looking at it and not necessarily what anybody else oughta do.
Required reading for the ultimate understanding of Black Powder.
"The Mutterings of the Mad Monk"
This is the text book info from the premier expert in the field.(period)
Book mark or download, and read each section. http://www.laflinandrand.com/page3.htm
For info about Elephant see SA-Pernambuco.
"The Mutterings of the Mad Monk"
This is the text book info from the premier expert in the field.(period)
Book mark or download, and read each section. http://www.laflinandrand.com/page3.htm
For info about Elephant see SA-Pernambuco.
Last edited by a moderator:
necchi said:
How is Bill? Has anyone heard from or about him recently? I miss that rascal, he and I used to have fun comparing notes. His from scientific research...mine for the old "Y'all hold my beer and watch this" Institute! :wink: :haha:
Well he was a member here and gave up posting,, he's been on the ALR,, I understand he just got tired of the banter
I haven't really heard anything for a few years, his eyes were going and he's in as good health as can be expected at his age, but he's not exactly jogging laps around the block.
I haven't really heard anything for a few years, his eyes were going and he's in as good health as can be expected at his age, but he's not exactly jogging laps around the block.
S/A Pernambuco Powder Factory in Brazil was established in 1866.cowboys1062 said:
It started marketing Elephant powder in 1992 to and continued until 2001 when it closed.
I heard the main reason for the company to close is the land it was sitting on became more valuable than the company.
After closing, they sold the equipment to another company who moved it to a different location.
Eventually, this company marketed their powder under the Diamondback name.
During Elephant's production years, they made some fairly good powder and some that was rather poor.
Mad Monk attributed the poor powder to the charcoal that was used. He said they started making the charcoal without stripping the bark off of the trees and the addition of the charred bark was the primary cause of the additional fouling the powder makes when it is fired.
I haven't shot any Diamondback powder but I am guessing they took Mad Monks advice and removed the bark from the wood before turning it into charcoal but I'm just guessing about this.
Diamondback powder seems to have come on the market around 2011 and by 2015 it is no longer available.
One of the nice things about black powder is, age has no effect on it if it is kept dry and at temperatures below 160°F.
It will last for hundreds of years.
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