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.50 cal Kibler Colonial smoothbore

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At no time under any circumstances will a normal volume load of 4F do any damage of any kind to either the firearm or the shooter.

These farcical urban legends need to be put to bed forever.

They're not, at all, based on science or proof or testing.

They're based on an internet version of telephone where you say one thing and it gets repeated and repeated and repeated until it's total BS.
 
Please educate the new guy with factual evidence of failures. Potential failure means diddly squat.
Same old unsubstantiated rhetoric.
I would like to say to any "new guy" out there reading this; Get yourself a Black Powder Manual, they are available for rifle, shotgun and pistols and revolvers and look to see if there's any load data given for 4f loads, you can't for good reason. You can find manuals by the renowned Sam Fadala and Toby Bridges with many years under their belts and not a single load for 4f. TC manuals give no data for 4f and many others.
 
That doesn't mean a smoothbore barrel, with a load of 4F in the chamber, will instantly self-identify as a pipe bomb.

It means it's not recommended.

From a performance standpoint.

Not a danger standpoint.

I wonder what would happen if people looked in the mirror and 4F five times. Candyman is a bigger danger than 4F powder.
 
I would like to say to any "new guy" out there reading this; Get yourself a Black Powder Manual, they are available for rifle, shotgun and pistols and revolvers and look to see if there's any load data given for 4f loads, you can't for good reason. You can find manuals by the renowned Sam Fadala and Toby Bridges with many years under their belts and not a single load for 4f. TC manuals give no data for 4f and many others.
That about right.
If your a sissy scare the manure out of everyone else so then your in a company of sissy's.
Show me a can of 4f that says do not use for anything other than pan powder.
 
I just got the same one in a .58, only shot it a couple times, but 60 grains of 2F over a patched ball worked out pretty well for me.
 

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That doesn't mean a smoothbore barrel with a load of 4F in the chamber will instantly self-identify as a pipe bomb.

It means it's not recommended.

From a performance standpoint.

Not a danger standpoint.
To be honest I love it for performance and that is why I recommend it.
You can use less and it doesn't seem to blow patterns like the course stuff.

I don't good around patterning much but I do know what works otherwise I wouldn't do it.

The last goose I shot from my 10g had 90gn of a mix of 4f and 3f because that is all I can get, under 2oz of tungsten matrix #3. Shot was 50yds plus.
Pheasants last season, same powder in .45 smooth bore, .62 and 12g.

1,2,3,.....8,9,10 yep still got all 10 fingers and, just check in the mirror, yep both eyes....
 
Please educate the new guy with factual evidence of failures. Potential failure means diddly squat.
Same old unsubstantiated rhetoric.
Same old dangerous BS by keyboard toughies, who often don't know jack squat about the guns (or barrel/ breech strength that the load will be used in. What do you know of the metallurgy and what it might take to work harden the alloy. Years ago a barrel maker made specific target barrels for certain matches, 62 caliber rifle barrels that were only 7/8's acf and intended for offhand shooting with no more than 35 grains of 2fg. A stooge who decided to magnum load that barrel now has a skull plate of stainless steel and the mind of a 4 yr old. Likewise Dixie sold thousands of thin wall barreled shotguns 50 yrs ago that weren't safe with more than minor loads of 2 or 3 f. I have a pistol for which the manufacturer suggested load. is 2 times more than most manufacturers' max rifle loads, but the barrel is almost 2 inches across the flats for 75 caliber. But I would never tell anyone to load that much in just any pistol, they might be unwise enough to use that much powder in one of those old sheet metal thin twist barrel Belgian pistols that Dixie once sold. .

So please tell us the breech pressure from 4 fg in a 50 caliber smooth bore under a column of shot. And specify which manufacturers barrels are so strong that the makers suggest 4 fg loads. What's that? no barrel makers suggest that? I would tend to believe the barrel maker himself rather than some key board toughie.
.
 
That was my frame of mind. Figured the right load could make it work
You'll do just fine so long as you get them in range, however far you find that to be once you experiment. My gobbler this Spring succumbed to a bunny 410 load at 7 steps. I really enjoyed it!

Good luck and enjoy, Skychief.
 
Same old dangerous BS by keyboard toughies, who often don't know jack squat about the guns (or barrel/ breech strength that the load will be used in. What do you know of the metallurgy and what it might take to work harden the alloy. Years ago a barrel maker made specific target barrels for certain matches, 62 caliber rifle barrels that were only 7/8's acf and intended for offhand shooting with no more than 35 grains of 2fg. A stooge who decided to magnum load that barrel now has a skull plate of stainless steel and the mind of a 4 yr old. Likewise Dixie sold thousands of thin wall barreled shotguns 50 yrs ago that weren't safe with more than minor loads of 2 or 3 f. I have a pistol for which the manufacturer suggested load. is 2 times more than most manufacturers' max rifle loads, but the barrel is almost 2 inches across the flats for 75 caliber. But I would never tell anyone to load that much in just any pistol, they might be unwise enough to use that much powder in one of those old sheet metal thin twist barrel Belgian pistols that Dixie once sold. .

So please tell us the breech pressure from 4 fg in a 50 caliber smooth bore under a column of shot. And specify which manufacturers barrels are so strong that the makers suggest 4 fg loads. What's that? no barrel makers suggest that? I would tend to believe the barrel maker himself rather than some key board toughie.
.
Nice write-up.

But obfuscation is not science nor proof.

Please explain to us why 4F is dangerous as a main charge in a .50 caliber barrel that Mr. Kibler sells.

Jeopardy music playing in the background.


P.S. The breech pressure for black powder is roughly 1/5th to 1/4th the pressure of modern Unmen pressures which run in the 45,000 to 55,000 PSI range. A black powder charge would be in the 10,000 to 15,000 PSI range. Regardless of which F, FF, FFF or FFFF is used. It's why we can get away with barrel steels that are much softer than Unmen barrel steels. It's why we should never use modern propellants in black powder barrels. A .50 caliber 4F charge is a mouse fart compared to an 8mm Mauser round with a case full of IMR 4895 and a 150 grain bullet.
 
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A stooge who decided to magnum load that barrel now has a skull plate of stainless steel and the mind of a 4 yr old.
No load data, not a valid comment.
What do you know of the metallurgy and what it might take to work harden the alloy.
Barrel steel does not work harden. It is static.
More scare mongering.

So please tell us the breech pressure from 4 fg in a 50 caliber smooth bore under a column of shot. And specify which manufacturers barrels are so strong that the makers suggest 4 fg loads. What's that? no barrel makers suggest that? I would tend to believe the barrel maker himself rather than some key board toughie.
Go away and find me a direct warning not to use 4f in a normally constructed muzzleloading firearm. You supply the figures instead of wetting your pants and trying get everyone else to wet theirs
" Keyboard toughie" that's hilarious coming from you sir! I'm no toughie but can spot a knee knocking sissy at a thousand yards!
Self opined expert, that is all you are.
Us that get on with it because we don't buy the jibbering rhetorical rub you guys up something fancy.
Produce the goods other than wet shorts Mr..... please.
 

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