54 cal rifle, is this barrel safe

[old ugly]

i bought a gun kit and there is a few issues with it, nothing i can do but lick my wounds and go with what i have.
one issue i am concerned about is the barrel. the barrel is a swamped 54 cal barrel, i asked the supplier to install the under barrel lugs that hold the barrel to the stock. the lugs he installed are dovetailed into the barrel, i measured the depth of the dove tails and the most steel that would be left between the bore and the dovetail is a little less than 1/16" and that is if the rifling groove does not pass through that area.the dovetails look tight into the barrel.
any opinions on weather or not i should trust this barrel.
thanks

 

[old ugly]

i forgot to mention it is a colerain barrel

 

From dealing with colts I can tell you the cylinder stop is paper thin at the bottom of the cut, but it's less surface area than a dove tail. Then again since the bore is round and the dove tail flat you've only got a small area that would be thin. I had one 1860 army that was so thin on the loading leaver latch dove tail that you could see the upset in the rifling of the barrel, never had an issue with it, but it was near the end of the barrel not the front or in the cylinder.

Best thing to do is proof the barrel, or send it back. At least that's my .02 cents.

I'm kinda interested in what some of the more experienced members think.

 

[varsity07840]

From dealing with colts I can tell you the cylinder stop is paper thin at the bottom of the cut, but it's less surface area than a dove tail. Then again since the bore is round and the dove tail flat you've only got a small area that would be thin. I had one 1860 army that was so thin on the loading leaver latch dove tail that you could see the upset in the rifling of the barrel, never had an issue with it, but it was near the end of the barrel not the front or in the cylinder.

Best thing to do is proof the barrel, or send it back. At least that's my .02 cents.

I'm kinda interested in what some of the more experienced members think.

I'd want to know why he used dovetail lugs instead of staples.

Duane

 

[Rifleman1776]

any opinions on weather or not i should trust this barrel

I can't be called an "expert" gunsmith on a subject like this. Just experienced and been around the ml game a long time.
First, good for you for checking that out and catching the potential problem.
I wouldn't trust it. Paper thin is never good with guns.
The lug should have been soldered on.
I know some will say there are many-many guns in use with your identical situation. I don't find that comforting.
Call the supplier (or better put it in writing in a real letter) explain you believe this is a dangerous situation ask for a replacement. If he has an ounce of brains he will not want to place himself at risk for legal action if harm comes to you or another shooter because of what he has done and you have documented.
BTW, if I were you, I would print out this thread and save for future reference.

 

[bioprof]

In what part of the barrel is the lug that is in question? There is quite a bit of difference in wall thickness on a swamped barrel. As long as it's not in the thinnest part of the barrel, it's probably not a problem.

I've never heard of soldering on barrel lugs on a swamped barrel. They're normally dovetailed in. That's normal.

 

[paulvallandigham]

How much Less " than a 1/16" of an inch" is it, Exactly? With today's steels, you will still have a comfortable margin using normal loads, and PRBs.

For a frame of reference, a piece of notebook paper is .0025" to .003" thick. 1/16" is .0625". Generally, you want a minimum of .020" between the dovetail and the bottom of your grooves for a RB barreled gun. For heavy, "bullet guns", that generate higher pressures, you want more metal there. How much more depends on the caliber, the weight of the bullet being fired, the powder charge. etc. :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[wayne1967]

I've got a .50 colerain that has a dovetail underlug in the slimist part of the barrel. I though the same thing but have never had an issue with the wall cracking and blowing out. Most of your pressure is in the breech.

 

[jerrywh]

With today’s barrel steels you should have no trouble even if the thickness is as little as .040" as far up the barrel as 12" from the breach as long as you use Black powder normal loads. I have run a lot of tests on barrels. I also know three engineers who have helped me on these projects Because I was making special shotgun and pistol barrels. Remember the thin part at the dovetail is supported all the way around by the thicker parts of the barrel. Very little pressure is applied to that portion of the barrel where the dovetail exists. I doubt if the internal pressure at that point of the barrel would ever exceed 5000psi. With a normal load of black powder. The formulas for computing pressures in barrels is not like one might think.
At any rate, I would thin that a barrel as you describe would most likely stand double the pressure with no effect. Just for your own satisfaction, Proof it with a double load. I do.

 

[old ugly]

thanks for the answers. the barrel can not be returned. i have emailed the supplier about other problems with the kit, no success.
it is hard to measure the exact wall thickness left at the dove tails and they are in the thinnest part of the swamped barrel.
thinking maybe the manufacture can offer some thoughts on this.
this kit was expensive ($1400)and suppost to be premium. stock is cracked and inletting for barrel and ramrod doesn't line up straight, and the wood is crap.and now worried about the barrel. i will stand back and proof it. we will see.

 

[Zonie]

If we are speaking of the rear underlug which is near the breech I would be concerned.

If it is the middle or forward underlug the barrel is probably safe for black powder loads.

 

[Old Salt]

Keep in mind that 1/16" dimension is only at one small point on the radius of the bore nearest the flat. The barrel wall thickness increases rapidly as you move away from that point.

 

[Birddog6]

A photo of the underlug that you are concerned about would be helpful. There are allot of dif ones made now.

And what barrel length it is ?

If it is in the narrowest part of the swamp, then most likely it is a long way from the breech where most of the pressure is.

Keith Lisle

 

[old ugly]

the barrel is 44" i will try to get a photo loaded this weekend

 

[Birddog6]

Do a side view & a top view if you can. Don't get too close or it will blur unless you have a Macro setting on the camera.

I have that same barrel here. Maybe I can get a close guestimate of what you have with a photo.

Keith Lisle

 

[jerrywh]

I'll give you $50.00 for it and you can buy a new one. Even if it is a corelain

 

[old ugly]

Naa I would have more fun with it by proofing it with 600 gr of powder.
I will get some photos loaded first and check.

 

[F.G. Ford]

600 Grains?????
I would back it off a bit, maybe to 575 Grains, and would that be Bullseye powder that you are talking about?
Let your brother-in-law try it.
I always did.
Old Ford

 

[jerrywh]

I'll bet you $500.00 that it won't blow up with 300 grns of ffg and 2 patched round balls.
I did that once and it took me about 1 1/2 hours to find the barrel but when I found it it was just fine. The recoil blew the back out of the fixture I had it tied down in and went off in the sage brush.

 

[Rifleman1776]

thanks for the answers. the barrel can not be returned. i have emailed the supplier about other problems with the kit, no success.
it is hard to measure the exact wall thickness left at the dove tails and they are in the thinnest part of the swamped barrel.
thinking maybe the manufacture can offer some thoughts on this.
this kit was expensive ($1400)and suppost to be premium. stock is cracked and inletting for barrel and ramrod doesn't line up straight, and the wood is crap.and now worried about the barrel. i will stand back and proof it. we will see.

You deserve better.
I would send a registered letter describing all the problems and emphasizing your safety concerns with the barrel.
Make it polite but firm and to the point.
Send a CC to your lawyer, or, at least, indicate such at the bottom of the letter.
Demand a full refund or exchange, don't timidly ask.
Some said it "probably" won't blow up. "Probably"??? :shocked2: