.54 caliber Thompson Center Help

[Ianster9]

I own a .54 caliber Thompson center arms muzzleloading rifle. It is percussion cap and a rifled barrel. It was handed down to me from my grandfather. He made it from a kit, so it can't be too old. Probably under 60 years. Ive shot similar rifles before, but I never asked what they used for ammo. I know the whole powder, patch, ball thing and whatnot, but I don't know specifics. Ive heard about synthetic powders and different types of sabots, but I don't know what any of that actually means.

What I'm wondering is what I should use. I want to use round balls. I know that for sure, but what kind of powder should I use? Synthetic? Normal? I have no idea. I think I recall someone saying that depending on the gun, it needs a certain kind of powder. Im not sure if that's right, but it sure as hell confused me.

Here's a picture of my muzzleloader:
http://village.photos/members/ianster9/My-Muzzleloader

 

[mooman76]

Most will tell you to use the real stuff. I would say use it if you can get it. I do ok with Pyrodex when I can't get real BP. Get a good BP book and read up on it. Have fun.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Welcome to the forum. You should use real black powder if you have access to it. Pyrodex will work in percussions. NEVER use modern powders! I recommend you find a club in your area and visit it for more information. :idunno:

 

[nwtradegun]

excellntgun for hunting, try 530 rd ball and 15 thou patches. powder charge from 80 to 100 grains 2 f black powder. use rws caps if u can get them

 

[Chevythunderman]

Welcome to the addiction and to the forum. The people on here have a wealth of knowledge on these old front stuffers. My buddies .54 t/c likes a .535 patched round ball with a .018 thick pillow ticking patch with a charge of 60 grains of triple f goex black powder. But every one of those t/c's is different in what they like or want. And that's with round balls from hornady. I've never had any luck with pyrodex but that's just me (too hard headed to give it a real go). Just exercise patience and give it a try and then try some more until you get it to shoot the way you want it too. The more you shoot the better aquainted you will get with the gun.

 

[Zonie]

I agree with the others.
You will need either .530 or .535 diameter lead balls, some cotton material patching to hold the ball and engage the barrels rifling grooves, some sort of lubrication for the cotton patch, some #11 percussion caps and either real black powder or one of the synthetic black powders.

A few gun stores will be able to provide the percussion caps, the balls and the patches.

The patches should be at least .015 (fifteen thousandths of an inch) thick.
I do NOT recommend buying "Pre-Lubricated" patches from the gun store because they are often old and the lubrication can break down the cotton fibers.

You will need something to measure the powder charge. The best kind is a small brass tube with an adjustable stop in the bottom. Get one that can measure between 40 and 100 grains minimum. One with a lower "low" range like 0-100 grain will be useful if you ever get into owning a pistol.

The patch lube can be a factory made one like Bore Butter or, you can use a light coating of vegetable oil or unsalted lard.

You will need a small block of wood or a "short starter" to start the patched ball into the muzzle. After the patched ball is started, it will be much easier to ram down the bore but that initial starting will be too difficult to do with your fingers.

Real black powder is the best but you must ask for it at the gunshop. If they have it, they cannot put it out on the shelf like they can with other powders.
If they don't have real black powder, Pyrodex or Seven7seven are probably the best synthetic powders.
Buy the granulated powder, not the pellets. Pellets are made for modern muzzleloaders and don't work well in a traditional side lock gun.

Do NOT use any of the smokeless powders made for modern guns. They may look black but they must NOT be used in a muzzleloader.
Even a small charge of smokeless powder will turn your gun into a bomb.

If you don't have one, buy a cleaning jag in .54 caliber. It is a grooved brass plug that screws onto the cleaning rod or ramrod and is used, along with a cleaning patch to clean the barrel.

You don't need any fancy cleaning solutions. Plain old water and a drop or two of diswashing soap will clean all of the powder fouling off nicely.

Also, its a good idea to buy some good anti-rust oil. Barricade is one of the best but any kind of oil is better than nothing.

Have fun. :hatsoff:

 

[Ianster9]

Thank you so much for all of the information! You answered all of my questions and more. Back when I first learned how to shoot a muzzleloader, the guy teaching me had me chew on the patch to get saliva into it instead of using lube. It wasn't ideal, but it seemed to work. Is using lube the best way to go? If I didn't use lube or anything to substitute it, what would happen?

 

[Ianster9]

Also would It be safe to use hoppes 9 gun bore cleaner? I have a lot of it for cleaning my other guns that aren't muzzleloaders.

 

[Zonie]

Chewing on a patch, as you noted, does work to soften the fouling from a previous shot and just to provide a little lubrication but, if there is going to be any time between loading and shooting, that's not a good way to do things.

The water in the saliva will start to rust the bore if the patch sits there for any long periods of time.

I mentioned vegetable oil earlier and just about any of them will work.

Motor oils and similar fossil oils can cause the black powder fouling to form tars that will cling to the bore and are very difficult to remove.

While I'm talking, you will probably want to start shooting using a 60 grain powder load.

Fire 3 -5 shots at the same point on the target and then remove the target. Jot down on it the load in grains and hang a fresh target.

Increase the powder load to 70 grains and shoot the new target with 3-5 shots and remove the target hanging another new one.

Increase the powder load to 75 grains and repeat.
Do the same with a 80 grain load.

You can continue this up to 100 grains but if your .54 is like most, you will find that somewhere around 75-85 grains produces the most accurate shots.

 

[Ianster9]

Thanks again for all of the information! I think I know enough to get started now. Maybe if I can learn to get a good accurate shot with it, I'll use it this hunting season. :grin:

 

[nkbj]

Do you have TC's loading manual?
Here's some info you might find useful. http://hunting.about.com/od/blackpowder/a/tcrifleloads.htm

Looks like TC doesn't have the Renegade manual on line but they give a number to call. http://www.tcarms.com/owners-manuals

 

[Zonie]

Just download the TC Hawken manual.

It's good enough for most of the TC sidelocks.
http://www.tcarms.com/pdfs/uploads/manuals/Hawken_Manual.pdf

 

[MSW]

Zonie's advice is good, and you should follow it. For a complete treatise on muzzle loading accuracy, check out Dutch Schouktz' method. Here's a link:
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

this will be the best money you spend on accessories for your rifle. I would hazard a guess that your Renegade .54 has a Green Mountain Barrel, with a one in 48 twist (that means one revolution in 48 inches). This rate of twist will stabilize both roundball and slug type projectiles (I think Thompson Center called them "maxi- balls.") I have several GM barrels, and the all shoot tighter groups than I can hold the rifle. Dutch Shoultz' method will shrink your groups: he guarantees it!

Good luck with your new rifle, and Make Good Smoke!

:grin:

 

[Rat Trapper]

I have had good luck using Triple Seven 2F in my TC 54 Hawken. that rifle and a friends both like 90 grains of either Goex or Triple Seven 2F. I use a .530 Hornady ball with a ox-yoke pre lubed patch in 15 thousands. Always remove your nipple when you clean the rifle and lube the threads with breech plug grease when putting it back in. Oil your bore when you put it away after cleaning.
Don't use bore butter in place of oil.

 

[house]

I had the same questions not to many years ago as well. Here is what works in mine best. I have used pryrodex but my gun likes 60 grains of 3F Goex, .018 patch lubed with Hoppes, and a .530 PRB. I bump it up to 70 grains for hunting but do my everyday/competition shooting with the 60. That's a good place to start and every gun is different so play around with different loads and patches and have fun.

 

[Eterry]

Welcome to the addiction, the smell of burnt black powder has no cure, but it beats the pool halls!
When I started I used saliva patches for practice and plinking, and still will today if the load isn't left in the barrel to long. but I also use Crisco when hunting. Wrap a towel around the barrel when cleaning and use HOT water, then dry patches to remove all water, and light coat of oil.
My friends T/C 54 likes a .530 ball, TC patches, and 60grs fffg. Shoots thru and thru deer around here.

Enjoy.

 

[Pete44ru]

the guy teaching me had me chew on the patch to get saliva into it instead of using lube.

If I didn't use lube or anything to substitute it, what would happen ?

The rifle would be VERY hard to load - why a lubed patch is best.



Also would It be safe to use hoppes 9 gun bore cleaner ?

Not in my opinion - either plain or soapy HOT water works best - with hot water, the barrel gets warm enough while cleaning to dry quickly.
Don't forget to lube the bore after cleaning - I use T/C (OxYoke)Bore Butter, the same lube I use on my patches.

I have a lot of it for cleaning my other guns that aren't muzzleloaders.

Metallic cartridge powders are not hydroscopic (water-attractive) like Holy Black and/or synthetic BP (Pyrodex, etc); and the cleaners for smokeless powder are different chemically than BP solvent (or hot water).

The T/C's QD patent breech makes cleaning a snap, once the barrel's removed from the stock.

There's several different cleaning methods, but here's what's work for me (w/o any rusting issues) since the late 1960's:

I just remove the nipple for separate cleaning and then set the breech end of the bbl into a pail of hot soapy water (outside), then pump it through the bore via a cloth patch on a cleaning jag on the ramrod, until the barrel warm & clean.

I keep an eye on the bbl afterward, then ASAP the metal's dry, I run a lubed patch downbore - which usually lasts until the next shooting.

The last step, before reassembling the bbl to the stock, is to wipe down all exterior meat surfaces (including the hammer face & nipple seat) with either bore lube or a good quality oil (even new, non-synthetic motor oil is better than nothing).


.

 

[mooman76]

I use Hopps #9 to clean mine and it works well for me. I stopped for awhile when I heard it was the wrong way but had troubles so I went back. Clean it good and check it a few days after and then maybe a few weeks just to make sure no rust is showing up.

 

[Zonie]

For the newbies to black powder shooting, there are several totally different types of Hopps #9.

There is the Hopps #9 Nitro Powder Solvent or just Hopps #9 Solvent.
These are the ones that we all remember from our childhood that smell like banana's.

This solvent is not made for cleaning black powder guns and if it is used to clean a muzzleloader it will do a poor job at best and just serve to gum up the black powder fouling and make it difficult to remove with soapy water at worst.
http://www.hoppes.com/bore-cleaners/no-9-solvent


Then, there is Hopps #9 BLACK POWDER GUN BORE CLEANER AND PATCH LUBE.

This is the one that is made specifically for cleaning black powder fouling.

If members talk about using Hopps #9 to clean their muzzleloaders, figure they are talking about this kind of solvent.
http://www.hoppes.com/bore-cleaners/more/no-9-plus

Don't ask me why they called both kinds of solvent Hoppe's #9. I think it was one of the dumber things they ever did.

 

[Elkeater]

My .54 T/C likes 80g Goex ff .535, .02 lubed oxbow .60 - .69 patch