roundball said:
flehto said:
We can surely surmise that if a .54 is doing the job on elk, then a .58 or .62 would do the job better. Really?
Yes, really.
In terms of upping the odds for a 125yd shot where a bull starts to turn just as the sear trips and then there's a big shoulder / leg / bone in the way of what you thought was a broadside lung shot by the time the ball gets there.
Its terminal ballistics...otherwise you could just hunt everything with a .22 rimfirre or a little .40cal PRB and they'd be as effective.
Well I happen to agree with Fred that the 54 is just about the perfect caliber for hunting in the west - which I have been doing since 1965 both as a private hunter and as a guide - both center fire (everything from a 250-300 to a 460 Weatherby) and muzzleloader.
In over 40 years of hunting elk, I've taken 25 elk - a mix of cows and bulls (mostly cows since I like to eat 'em - ya'll can keep them ole stinky bulls).
The weights ranged from 350 to over 700 lbs. 5 elk were taken with centerfires (30-06, 338-06, and a 45-90 Sharps single shot). The other 20 were taken with muzzleloaders - 16 with a 54 rifle, 1 with an 11 gauge original musket, 1 with a 16 bore original, and 2 with 58 cal NW guns. I've also been in on a couple hundred other elk kills with muzzleloaders and the 54 was used in the majority of them.
My longest shot was 110 yards - a going away shot with my 11 gauge on a wounded bull of about 600 lbs - up the spout and that great big ball wound up just under the skin in the chest - about 3.5 feet of penetration.
My second longest shot was with a 54 at 95 yards and it too was a going away shot on a bull of around the same weight - this ball, a 530 wheel weight over 90 grns 3f, wound up just a few inches short of the chest - about 3 feet of penetration. Ive also broken shoulders or driven the ball through them on 6 elk with my 54, 90-100 grns 3F and a WW ball (for hunting elk and black bear a harder ball is BETTER in my experience, especially for penetration) - so plenty of whompability even in that 54.
As for 125 yards shots - IMO they are seldom needed or recommended with a muzzleloader even out here(unless maybe you're hunting sage brush flats/prairie lands, but that's not the only type of country to hunt out here despite the impression that some others posting here may have given - the area I live and have hunted here in the 4 Corners for the last 17 years, is mostly pinyon/juniper high desert with lots of cover or the higher mountain areas of mixed mostly pine/aspen forests and meadows - it's like a lot of the west where it varies and a lot of what the country is like depends on elevation.
So while the bigger bores MAY do a bit better on the bigger western game in so far as terminal ballistics, as Fred and others have noted, that's just one part of the equation and overall the 54 for hunting in the west is THE optimum caliber. Yep terminal ballistics are important, but shot placement is even more so.
Others experiences/opinions will vary (and frankly if you haven't hunted big game in the west you're only offering an opinion, maybe one based on other experiences, but it's still an opinion), but my "opinion" is based on 48 years of hunting western big game (as well as guiding others) with a muzzleloader/pistol/center fire rifle including elk, mule deer, and black bear. I've noted my experience with bear in a previous post and as far as mule deer go they aren't any tougher or necessarily bigger (depends on where you are - locally the bucks average around 130-150 max pounds on the hoof) than eastern/mid-western white tails.
IMO - Rather than be too concerned over caliber, those who have never hunted out here and live at low elevations I would recommend getting in shape - the country can get rough, but for most folks it's the elevation that's the "killer" due to the lower oxygen levels - most of the best hunting areas here in the Rockies/Great Basin, especially for elk are 4,000' ASL or higher, going on up to plus 9,000' ASL. My house sits at 6,500' ASL and where I usually go for elk is 7500-8000' ASL.
To get in shape - Walk, jog, go out in the field with your gun as often as possible and if possible shoot it at various ranges and also uphill and downhill so you understand how it handles and shoots in varying conditions.
Still elevation can be a concern so if/when you come out west to hunt and it's at higher elevation, try coming out a week or so beforehand and just be here and experience what elevation can do to you. Elevation sickness, which may lead to death, can be a major health problem for some folks, especially above 9,000'.
anyway bottomline - if you do your part a 54 caliber will take anything on this continent, although for the big grizzle bears I'd pack of the center fire persuasion with more than one shot available - I've been up close and personal with old man grizzly a few times and it do raise the pucker factor and since I'm not limited to front loaders I'll go with the big bruisers like my old M71 in 450 Alaskan (basically a 458 winchester load in a lever action), the Marlin 450 guide gun, or last but far from least a double gun in 470 Nitro....
