.54 for Big Game

[Rat Trapper]

I've shot a number of deer with conicals and have never found any conicals coming off the load in my rifles and I have checked often for it. I think this happens when the fit of the conical is too loose to start with. In my TC 50 cal Hawken those Hornady great plains bullets start real hard. They are however tack drivers with 90 grains fo triple seven 2F. Always use a wad over powder with a conical.

The farthest a deer ever went after being shot with a ML was one shot with a PRB in 45 cal. After finding that deer which went a good 200 yards I found the hit was not real good. Ball hit one corner of one lung and the liver. Damage showed me the load was up to the task provided I put it where it should go. The load was 70 grains of Triple Seven 2F with a Hornady ball. It shoots into around an inch at 50 yards. Deer was 52 yards when I pulled the trigger. A bigger ball with this not perfect hit may have put it down quicker. Area was all pine trees so finding blood is very hard in those needles. Found hair at location deer was standing, but found no blood until after I found the deer. After seeing the damage caused by the 45 cal ball, I'd use it again.

 

[hoochiepapa]

Just showin' off. Both are Hornady GP's, both killed bull elk and stopped in the skin on the opposite side, both hollow points. Cabela's Hawken, .54, 100grs. bp sub, longest shot was 110 yards.

 

[hanshi]

I don't normally shoot at anything that isn't pretty close. But I have shot three deer - 1 at 75yds and 2 at 100yds and the prb gave complete penetration and they dropped very quickly and very close. I just can't see any (my) need for anything other than a prb. Dead is dead. :thumbsup:

 

[Little Wattsy]

I don't normally shoot at anything that isn't pretty close. But I have shot three deer - 1 at 75yds and 2 at 100yds and the prb gave complete penetration and they dropped very quickly and very close. I just can't see any (my) need for anything other than a prb. Dead is dead. :thumbsup:

Agreed and to be honest at the 100 - 115-sh yard range Im guessing that ethics on deer sized game are beconning questionable for the open sights alone reguardless of whether your shooting a .54 PRB or a .300 WSM...

 

[Kentuckywindage]

eye sight issue is only valid for that shooter, not for everyone. 150 yards is my max that i can see deer clearly with open sights. Elk, 200-250 no problem.

You keep them lil pea shooters! I will load the 50 with a conical and my 58 with a patched ball :blah:

 

[Little Wattsy]

eye sight issue is only valid for that shooter, not for everyone. 150 yards is my max that i can see deer clearly with open sights. Elk, 200-250 no problem.

You keep them lil pea shooters! I will load the 50 with a conical and my 58 with a patched ball :blah:

:shocked2: Are you saying that you can see well enough to to shoot an elk ethically with open sights at 250 yards? And a deer at 150? I wont ask if you do that offhand at milling elk or from the prone position thru the grass and tweeds.... :hmm:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

eye sight issue is only valid for that shooter, not for everyone. 150 yards is my max that i can see deer clearly with open sights. Elk, 200-250 no problem.

You keep them lil pea shooters! I will load the 50 with a conical and my 58 with a patched ball :blah:

:shocked2: Are you saying that you can see well enough to to shoot an elk ethically with open sights at 250 yards? And a deer at 150? I wont ask if you do that offhand at milling elk or from the prone position thru the grass and tweeds.... :hmm:

That is what i am saying, yes. Normally I will use what is at my advantage, kneeling with the aid of a tree limb or even laying down and resting my hand on the ground if it is an up hill shot. Lots of situations you can be put it, knowing how to judge your limits is what makes a kill ethical or unethical.

200-250 yards with a patched ball is another story though. Would i feel comfortable taking a 200 yard shot on an elk? If i knew my drop and practiced enough i wouldnt have a problem. My 7.62x54 is an easy 400 yard gun with open sights.

 

[feyx0006]

Yes I do.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/274922/

oooh-rah

 

[Little Wattsy]

eye sight issue is only valid for that shooter, not for everyone. 150 yards is my max that i can see deer clearly with open sights. Elk, 200-250 no problem.

You keep them lil pea shooters! I will load the 50 with a conical and my 58 with a patched ball :blah:

:shocked2: Are you saying that you can see well enough to to shoot an elk ethically with open sights at 250 yards? And a deer at 150? I wont ask if you do that offhand at milling elk or from the prone position thru the grass and tweeds.... :hmm:

That is what i am saying, yes. Normally I will use what is at my advantage, kneeling with the aid of a tree limb or even laying down and resting my hand on the ground if it is an up hill shot. Lots of situations you can be put it, knowing how to judge your limits is what makes a kill ethical or unethical.

200-250 yards with a patched ball is another story though. Would i feel comfortable taking a 200 yard shot on an elk? If i knew my drop and practiced enough i wouldnt have a problem. My 7.62x54 is an easy 400 yard gun with open sights.

:bull: Its not how far the gun cah shoot its how far you can ETHICALLY be on target.. Prove me wrong but I dont believe ANY gun is a "400 yard gun with open sights" in a hunting situation.... I suspect some people have never actually ranged 400 hunting yards to know just how far exactly that is... MOST guys would pass on a 400 yard shot wita a scope and a modern magnum.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

hell the russians sure did the job with that round. An elk is a huge target even with open sights. I never had to shoot anything over 300 yards though.

 

[Walks with fire]

I just talked with a marksman trainer for the military yesterday and he was telling me about the young men he is training right now and he said that some of these guys are shooting 14" groups at 200 yards with an AR and peep sights from a standing position. He said that's good shooting. I know I couldn't do it. With a scope maybe; and scope rested bolt action I could probably do under 3 inches.

I know for myself that 100 yards field rested is my limit for a roundball gun and if the wind can be felt at all I am getting closer or not shooting.

 

[Little Wattsy]

hell the russians sure did the job with that round. An elk is a huge target even with open sights. I never had to shoot anything over 300 yards though.

You just said "My 7.62x54 is an easy 400 yard gun with open sights."
Im guessing you dont do alot of hunting but there is a HUGE differance between hitting a mobile critter at 400 yards with open sights (or even 250) with the goal of a good hit, human kill, In ONE SHOT vs in a war situation where the target dosnt really run away and a gut shot or a leg or arm shot is all about as good as not.
I think its a tragic and foolish mistake to confuse the guns ability with our own. Ive shot with alot of guys and even with a scoped magnum 300 yards plus in the field with exertion and/or adreniline is a Long Dam Ways!!!

 

[Kentuckywindage]

personally i think you just got confused is all. I dont shoot animals at 400 yards even with a scoped rifle. 250 yards with open sights and a modern centerfire isnt a problem for me, even with open sights. Deer are impossible to see at that disance for my eye sight, but elk is a whole new ball game.
We cant base everything off of what you are incapable of doing.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Well Ill take you at your word. I would, however, be interested in seeing a pic of your open sights centerfire and a 10 shot target at 250 yards - open sights of course, preferably not from a bench rest. A 6" group or less ought to be acceptable to affirm a ethical kill.
You can post it in the "Non-Muzzloader part of the forum. Batter up!...

 

[Kentuckywindage]

actually i cant, its a charge area now. :idunno:

 

[hanshi]

In truth, my max range is determined exclusively by how well I can aim with open sights...which ain't too good. For me a .45 is as good as a .54 since I can't see well enough for caliber to make the least bit of difference.

 

[vthunter52]

Seems like a whole of centerfire rifles are being shot here, and the premise of a well placed shot with a muzzleloader has been lost. I think that we all, as hunter's owe it to the game to harvest it in the most humane way, and IMHO, long range sniping isn't the answer.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I have seen NRA high power shooters who would be able to kill anything you put in front of them at 600 yards. You just can not believe how small of groups some guys can shoot with iron sights. Now for most people I agree, we need to keep our shots to within our limits. On my own farm, I can normally pick spots that will allow me to keep my shooting within 50 yards. Can I shoot farther, you bet, but I don't want to.

 

[dbutch]

Memphis1211....First flintlock whitetail..40 yards with a 90 gr load.
The shot took out the center of the spine and kept going..High shot angle.
Very impressed...I had hunted with conical's since 1983...never lost a deer shooting them.....
Had reservations...
Did my homework on the best load(accuracy) and it paid off.
I would feel comfortable hunting bear with a 54...
Elk size animals require a more mass and a hard rb in my eyes YMMV!
Go with your gut on this one.....Dan

 

[Rev_William]

eye sight issue is only valid for that shooter, not for everyone. 150 yards is my max that i can see deer clearly with open sights. Elk, 200-250 no problem.

You keep them lil pea shooters! I will load the 50 with a conical and my 58 with a patched ball :blah:

:shocked2: Are you saying that you can see well enough to to shoot an elk ethically with open sights at 250 yards? And a deer at 150? I wont ask if you do that offhand at milling elk or from the prone position thru the grass and tweeds.... :hmm:

I can and have. I can hit a human sized target ethically in the kill zone out to about 400 yds if it's standing.