.54 for Big Game

[Walks with fire]

I hunt with a PRB because it has so many benifits that other projectiles don't. They are too numerous to mention so I won't. I will just say I use them because I like it.

 

[rodwha]

"I have to admit that when I first began looking for a side lock I had the intentions of a .50 cal using PRB for medium game..."

Actually that's only after having read so many reports from fellows, such as yourselves, that a PRB often gives passthroughs on deer and such out to 75-100 yds, and does quite well.

Just looking at how easily a mild breeze will send a RB off course, the lack of energy, and the lack of any real sectional density made me wonder why you guys were so crazy! Only a conical or unmentionable could possibly do the job properly! I mean that is why we have all of the modern stuff right?

Thanks, fellas, for opening my eyes to the old fangled ways. Though it still baffles me how a small ball of lead that the ballistics calculator is only good for game that weighs about 88 lbs at 75 yds with 595 ft/lbs of energy left from a .490" RB does well and can penetrate clear through a deer. But I'll be trying it once I get dialed in.

 

[rodwha]

I would like to know of the benefits you see a RB has over other projectiles WWF.

I see a lack of recoil in comparison, and the greatly reduced cost of a load. And if/when I cast the sparing use of lead vs a conical.

The one thing I don't like about a PRB is how easily the wind can blow it off course. I can judge the range fairly well, and sighting it in at 100 yds would be plenty to do well from 0-125 yds, though 75 to 100 yds would likely be my max. I may not be a good enough judge of wind and it's direction, nor know how it's behaving further down range, which could easily lead to a horribly misplaced shot and hours of tracking. And that's the biggest reason for a max range of 75-100 yds.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I would like to know of the benefits you see a RB has over other projectiles WWF.

I see a lack of recoil in comparison, and the greatly reduced cost of a load. And if/when I cast the sparing use of lead vs a conical.

The one thing I don't like about a PRB is how easily the wind can blow it off course. I can judge the range fairly well, and sighting it in at 100 yds would be plenty to do well from 0-125 yds, though 75 to 100 yds would likely be my max. I may not be a good enough judge of wind and it's direction, nor know how it's behaving further down range, which could easily lead to a horribly misplaced shot and hours of tracking. And that's the biggest reason for a max range of 75-100 yds.

The "advantages" are in HOW a RB reacts during a hit vs an elongated bullet. Modern bullets vaporize or jellatinize tissue on impact due to the hyper speeds and vacume it creates as well was some tissue damage due to the penetration of a .30-ish diamiter slug.
The RB, using soft lead, has the ability to mushroom greatly at a much slower FPS... at 600 FPS a .54 RB can mushroom to nearly 1" in diamiter and retain enough weight to plough through considerable tissue and bone.
So a modern gun will kill you by liquifing your internals with a super fast bullet... A .54 RB will kill you like a shovel handle being driven through your chest by an 12lb sledge hammer.
Both pretty effective... Once you see the damage caused by a .54 RB you understand why they just cuts shot legs off in the cival war.

As for wind, up to 10mph I wouldnt worry much out to 100 yards. Every 5 mph over that I would get another 10 - 15 yards closer which is all the easier to do in serious winds....

 

[rodwha]

I assumed he was comparing the RB to various types of conicals.

What would a PRB have over a Minie or REAL or Maxi other than recoil, cost, and volume of lead if casting?

 

[Walks with fire]

I don't believe in calculating energy levels for round ball loads but they are useful for wind drift and trajectory as long as you are using real life velocity. If you choose to look at power levels of PRB loads then use the Thornily Stopping Power calculator for that.

The benifits of PRB are numerous...

It stays on the charge without concern; conicals can come off the charge. There is less recoil; they are the largest diameter for a given weight; they can be soft or hard cast depending on how much penetration you want.

You can make your own; they are very accurate, they have a flat enough trajectory for open sight shooting to 100 yards. Charge levels can go up and down the measure without significant loss of accuracy; they are a very economical projectile to buy.

I have to sign off now but I will give some more reasons to consider when I return.

 

[rodwha]

Thornily Stopping Power calculator

What is that? I've never heard of it.

 

[rodwha]

"...conicals can come off the charge."

This is one thing that scares me. I've figured if/when I want a conical I'd start with a REAL.

For now I don't really have much need for a conical though. But I'd like to move near the Rockies where I would if I continued on with the .50 cal!

 

[Kentuckywindage]

conicals coming off the charge is due to poor fit. I have a cabelas hawken thats 2 different sizes and therefore a PITA to get conicals to work in.

PRB offers no benefits as to killing game. The bigger lead projectile will do the job better.

Bigger balls leave a bigger hole and will punch through heavier muscle. I shot an elk at 148 yards and the 223gr round ball did the job but did not exit nor was i able to find it. That tells me the ball went in and rattled around in the rib cage.

I'd prefer we ALL stayed out of the PRB VS conical debate. If balls were so good, the world would still rely on them.

Heres an exit wound with a 250gr conical.

 

[pab1]

If balls were so good, the world would still rely on them.

The same can be said about muzzleloaders. I use round balls because of the connection to the past I feel when hunting with them. Thats a big part of why I enjoy shooting and hunting with muzzleloaders too. When using roundballs (or any projectile), you have to remember its limitations and stick to them, no matter how big that buck or bull is.

 

[roundball]

The same can be said about muzzleloaders. I use round balls because of the connection to the past I feel when hunting with them. Thats a big part of why I enjoy shooting and hunting with muzzleloaders too.

Agree...pretty sure that's the main point of this pursuit as far as the majority of traditional muzzleloading enthusiasts are concerned. And as the size of the big game gets bigger, larger caliber/PRBs can be used.

There can be an economical issue where a hunter may have only a given caliber and wants to hunt bigger game...and that caliber's power can be enhanced by a conical rather than have the expense of buying yet another another sidelock, but otherwise, a conical is not the normal attraction that brings people to traditional styled arms.

Last summer / fall I tested a new custom .40cal X 200grn REAL that 'oldnamvet' had a mold made for.
The only .40cal I had was a Flintlock which was not the most traditional combination of course...LOL...but for the intent and purpose of the test, it proved the point that a small/marginal sized caliber's power can be enhanced with a conical of course.
If the .40cal was all anyone happened to have it would allow them to hunt whitetails with a better projectile than a tiny 92grn .40cal PRB.

Having run the test, I won't suddenly change and now do all my deer hunting with it because I have larger calibers and as long as I do I'll use that approach as the traditional way is PRBs.

 

[Walks with fire]

I like conicals and I like the extra weight. They are very accurate in my GM 28/1 twists and I can deal with the trajectory issues out to 100 yards.

I also know how I stomp around the woods on deer drives and how stuff happens quick leaving no ttime to check if your conical bullet has moved off the charge.

A barrel burst is something I just want to take out of the equation at all costs. I guess a person could still short start a rb as well though but that's a mistake being made vs. an accident.

 

[hanshi]

After comparing notes with a friend who USE to hunt with bp, prb hits were normally more damaging and dropped deer quicker on average than conicals. He was a conical purist while I am a prb purist. He spoke of too many conical hits raising dust on the other side of the deer followed by a long trek to find the animal. A time or two the deer were never found. I've never killed a deer with a centerfire round that was more damaging than a prb hit. Plus the traditional thingy.

 

[rodwha]

I can see that it's quite possible that a heavy conical traveling much slower wouldn't be so fast that it'd expand much giving it the ability to over penetrate, whereas a RB, if it's not at the far end of it's ability, being much faster does indeed expand easier and creating a larger wound. But not expanding much at further distances where it has dropped in velocity tremendously.

But at a large diameter to begin with (even a .50 cal) it does't seem like expansion should be all that necessary. Nice, but not needed.

I don't speak from experience though, and my reasoning has gotten me into trouble before...

 

[Kentuckywindage]

the bullets i use expand almost 1" in diameter. We've had one deer run and he went MAYBE 60 yards but the blood trail was excellent to follow.

You know how some guys are. I hit it in the boiler room an ah didnt get no blood trail an lost the deer! I love how some claim they hit them solid, with all that white smoke in front of the gun as it goes off. Not to mention the recoil throwing the gun/shooter off the target as the bullet leaves.

 

[Vaino]

Once a conical is pushed down a clean, rifled bore and seated, the conical is engraved and nothing restricts it from moving off the powder charge.There is no compressed "spring back" asre the conical. Have hunted elk first w/ a 375 gr.50 cal. Maxiball and then changed to a 410 gr Buffalo Bullet and while hunting, have checked them both w/ the RR and at times, they did move off the charge. That didn't happen in a fouled bore, but I don't like to hunt for long w/ a fouled bore. That's one of the reasons I now use a .54 PRB

Both rifles have shot elk w/ excellent results, but the advantage of the .54 PRB is a lower trajectory.....60 yd zero w/ the conical and a 100 yd zero w/ the PRB.....Fred

 

[Little Wattsy]

Once a conical is pushed down a clean, rifled bore and seated, the conical is engraved and nothing restricts it from moving off the powder charge.There is no compressed "spring back" asre the conical. Have hunted elk first w/ a 375 gr.50 cal. Maxiball and then changed to a 410 gr Buffalo Bullet and while hunting, have checked them both w/ the RR and at times, they did move off the charge. That didn't happen in a fouled bore, but I don't like to hunt for long w/ a fouled bore. That's one of the reasons I now use a .54 PRB

Both rifles have shot elk w/ excellent results, but the advantage of the .54 PRB is a lower trajectory.....60 yd zero w/ the conical and a 100 yd zero w/ the PRB.....Fred

mine was a simialr story.... :thumbsup:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

never any trouble with conicals coming off a charge, even the hornady great plains or maxiballs. Didnt like the 385gr HP GP bullets though. Soft lead does not need a hollow point.

 

[Walks with fire]

What are the specifics on the photo with the 250 grain conical. Twist rate, charge level, caliber? Who makes a 250 grain conical. Was it a ball-et?

 

[Kentuckywindage]

the only lead i use is a patched ball. My conicals are california legal. Them be green bullets!! :blah:

Cant tell you here, i will be more than happy to pm you though if thats alright.