.54 or .58

[Greenmtnboy]

"
People need to respect that elk are harder to kill than deer. They are not that easy to kill."

I am certain that those of us who have spent of lives around Elk are quite aware of the animals traits their strengths and weakness, and many long time ML Elk hunters use a .50 or .54 prb,with great results which is something that cannot be argued with useing ballistic comparisons, as in the centerfire world many use a standard .308 or .270 while others insist a 30 cal magnum is required.A lot of people kill them with a string and a stick with a sharp blade on the end.I think they are often put on a pedestal as being a super deer that you need heavy artillary to kill, I just don't see it I have seen Elk go down quick and Elk take a while to drop when hit by various projectiles same for deer, as always it ain't so much what you hit them with as where and from how far you hit them.

i agree. guy that hunts the same area where i hun elk uses .243 and never had lost his game. .54 or .58 is a topic of conversation and discussion mostly, elk do not know much about what we talk about here, but when hit where they need to be hit, they go down.

nuff said
:bow: :bow:

 

[Swampman]

Big Game Rifles and Cartridges by Elmer Keith should be required reading (along with a written test) before you can get an elk tag.

 

[tg]

" elk do not know much about what we talk about here,"

I dono they might know more than some here....

 

[TopNotch]

a lil under 6 Lbs.

How about yours?

 

[rabjr]

Well ya beat me there, mines 7 lbs 4 oz.

 

[Roy]

a lil under 6 Lbs.

How about yours?

Cool... what barrel??

 

[roundball]

My .58cal is heavier at 10.5 pounds...it's a heavy 1" x 33" GM barrel with a solid 3/8" brass ramrod which I guess adds an extra 1 to 1.5 lbs and not be anything I'd want to still hunt with.

For still hunting I'd have to put in a tubular brass rod and rezero, but it would still probably weigh about 9.5 lbs...and I like heavy rifles as they help me with accuracy...plus, 99% of my hunting is from a deer stand so the extra weight has not been a negative so far.

 

[rabjr]

Mine started life out as a "C' weight swamped .58 and was modified.
http://nimrodsplace.com/nerifle1.html

 

[Herb]

My hunting load for my Green River .54 Leman is 120 grains of Goex 2F and a .530 roundball, which gives about 1860 fps. My recently completed .58 flint fullstock Hawken (36" barrel and 9 3/4 pounds) gave 1801 fps for 10 shots with a .562 roundball and 100 grains of Triple 7 2F (with 5 grains of Goex 2F booster) (because the buyer thought he wanted to use it- he is going to black powder). I compared the .54 and .58 at 1800 fps, using Lymans BlackPowder Handbook, first edition, quoted above. And got a surprise.

The .535 at 1800 fps has 1654 foot pounds of muzzle energy. At 200 yards (not that we'd shoot at game that far, but for extreme comparison) it has 783 fps and 313 fpe. Drop from a 50 yard zero is 3.87" at 100 yards and 37.71" at 200.

The .562 at 1800 fps has 1921 fpe ME. At 200 yards it has 800 fps and 379 fpe. Drop from a 50 yard zero is 3.74" at 100 yards and 36.28" at 200.

The Ballistic Coefficients are .075 for the .54 and .079 for the .58. So, ballistically, the two are very close. Except I had all the shoulder whompability I wanted with the .58 at 1800 fps. I have got one of my .54s up to over 2200 fps with 120 grains of Triple 7 2F (Hodgdon's max load) and I suppose that kicked a lot, been a few years ago.

 

[rabbit03]

Hi Herb, good info and thanks. I was wondering if you had any information on the .575 that I shoot in my 58? I am chronographed challenged right now but would like to get one in the future. Just thought if you already had info on the 575 you might post it for me.

Thanks

rabbit03

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I live in Colorado and elk hunt. They are big animals. All I am saying is people need to know how big they are and since they are a little harder to kill you might not want to take longer shots. A larger rifle can be better but a smaller one still works fine. I know guys who have killed elk with a 243. Just know your rifles limits on the game you are hunting.

 

[tg]

Can't argue with that Sharp Shooter, their size can make judging distance tricky if you are not familiar with them and have only hunted deer.Good luck to all of you who hunt Elk next year whereever and however you...... get 'er done

 

[Herb]

Rabbit- I did shoot .575's in that Hawken. 90 grains of Goex 2F and .018 pillow ticking with 2/3 Murphy Oil Soap and 1/3 91% alcohol lube gave 1441 fps with 38 fps spread for six shots. This was with the White Lightning flash hole liner with its .055 hole. This has been too small in the rifles I used it in, so I opened it to 1/16" (.0625). The next four shots went 1419 with 23 spread. Thus a little slower, but more reliable. I probably later opened it to .070, which eliminates flashes in the pan. With the same patch, lube and .575 ball, 90 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 averaged 1507 fps with a good group. The next day, the same recipe except .562 balls and 10 ounce cotton duck (WalMart) gave 1549 for four, then in two shot groups, 95 grains gave 1542, 100 grains 1599, 105 grains 1628 and 110 grains 1675 fps.

Then with 90 grains Triple 7 2F and 5 grains of Goex 2F boost, .562 and .020 10 ounce cotton duck and a leather lubed overpowder wad, 5 shots went 1727 fps with 54 spread, into 1.25" at 50 yards. Next, same but 100 grains of Goex 2F powder, 5 shots gave 1525 fps with 19 spread. Same but 100 grains of Swiss 1 1/2, five shots gave 1630 with 26 spread. Then with 100 grains of Triple 7 2F, 5 grains of Goex 2F boost, .562 and lubed leather OPW with pillow ticking, 10 shots went 1801 fps with 25 spread, no cleaning or wiping at all for 24 shots.

I am finishing up a Chambers Mark Silver early Virginia .58 flintlock and have shot it about 50 times, mostly with .562 and 80 grains of Goex 2F with pillow ticking. That loads easy. Tried some .570 cast balls, but they load harder though they shoot into the same group as .562s. Haven't chronographed them yet. Tried that 10 ounce cotton duck from Wal Mart, but in RED color. Those patches are a lot easier to find! Another good patch is the wide-striped blue and white awning from Wal Mart. I favor the .562's for ease of loading, and they cut cloverleafs at 50 yards from rest. This with no cleaning or wiping.

 

[vikingsword]

I've shot both calibers for many years, shoot both of them quite well actually, and through those years I've devloped my favorites depending on the situation I'm putting myself in, in regards to hunting. Now let me say first, that I personally feel that I'm very capable of downing either a moose or an elk with either one, and having lived in Wyoming, and now Alaska,my choice of caliber would depend on the area I'm hunting for the simple reason that if I'm hunting an area where running into a brown bear is a good possibility, I won't hesitate in choosing my 58, and If blacks are most prominant in the area, I'll most likley choose my 54, mostly for sentimental reasons. Both calibers,are, capable, the question therefore needs to be, which one are you most comfortable and capable with, and, which one is the most sensible to use for the conditions you will be hunting in. Choose wisely, and good hunting. viking-sword

 

[laufer]

" elk do not know much about what we talk about here,"

I dono they might know more than some here....

well, i never have claimed that i know a lot, or made any definite judgement on other peoples' opinnions, i only know what is good for me and my elk. never intended to offend anybody, sorry.

 

[rabbit03]

Herb, thanks for the load data I sure appreciate your time in posting it. :thumbsup:

rabbit03

 

[tg]

"i only know what is good for me and my elk. never intended to offend anybody, sorry. "

No offense was taken and my post was not aimed at you, it was just an attempt at light humor, I find you posts well written and considerate to all,I on the other hand toss a lot of jabs, no serious harm intended.

 

[laufer]

"i only know what is good for me and my elk. never intended to offend anybody, sorry. "

No offense was taken and my post was not aimed at you, it was just an attempt at light humor, I find you posts well written and considerate to all,I on the other hand toss a lot of jabs, no serious harm intended.

:hatsoff:

te way i see it, the more jabs you hit me with here, the less gray hair i'll get in woods, so feel free anytime to toss 'em at me. :thumbsup: