60/40 tin/lead balls?

[NAA_Silent]

I'm considering a .50 or .54 long gun in the future, and I was wondering if I would be OK casting balls from 60/40 tin/lead since the ball isn't pressed in like on the pistols. I have a fairly large supply of 60/40 available to me at no cost. When my current supply of .454 balls are spent, I plan on casting my own .454 as well, except those will be out of pure lead.

Thanks

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't know the Rockwell hardness number for 60/40 lead, but its HARD. That is plumber's lead. Fine for sealing joints on iron pipe. Not so good for balls and bullets.

We use Soft lead to cast balls for the rifles, then wrap them in a fabric patching, so that the diameter of the ball is smaller than the diameter of the land to land(bore) measurement, in most cases. The soft lead HAS TO EXPAND to force the fabric into the deep GROOVES of the rifling, to seal the gases behind the PRB. Otherwise, the hot gases cut holes or burn the fabric, and melt the ball or just cut off chunks of the ball before it even leaves the muzzle! :shocked2: :idunno: Accuracy is non-existent.

We sometime use Wheel Weight lead to cast balls, because while the lead is harder, the lead is still soft enough to expand to some extent. Those balls cast with wheel weights will be Lighter in weight, than balls cast from pure lead, AND LARGER in DIAMETER than balls cast from pure lead.

I can only speculate, but I suspect that balls cast from 60/40 mix of lead/tin, will weigh even less, be larger in diameter, and be much harder, meaning they are not likely to upset at all to help push the patching into the grooves.

These might work in a barrel with a fast Rate of Twist rifling, with shallow grooves. You can stabilize round balls out of any ROT rifled barrel, as long as the grooves are deep enough to hold a tight patch tight enough to transfer the spin of the rifling to the lead ball. A VERY HARD LEAD ball simply compounds that problem, as without upsetting on firing, its difficult to get the patch to "grab" the ball well enough to insure consistent spin. You probably will need to resort to using a mallet to seat a thick patch/hard ball combination in such a barrel.

If I were in your situation, I would trade that lead for some pure lead, and avoid the situation altogether. There are plenty of other uses for such an alloy lead. Even lead sinkers, and line weights used by fishermen would be a better use for that lead than making balls for a MLer, IMHO. :hmm: :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[saber]

if you went a ball to take to the riflin and for hunting pure lead I like to se the patch weave in the ball after shooting and you went the lead to flaten when it hits game wheel weights and you mix good for target wad cutters for the 45acp and 38super

 

[NAA_Silent]

I learn new things every day. I hadn't considered the way the wad/bullet interact with the rifling in the barrel. I'll just stick to pure lead for bullets for the muzzle loaders then. I was hoping to use the old tin/lead anodes that my company recycles on a regular basis.

Thank you for the insight.

 

[DarenN]

sell it to handgun shooters and buy pure lead.
i traded a bunch of wheel weights to a freind (who shoots 45ACP) for pure lead that he had waiting to be alloyed. he's happy; i'm happy! :grin:

 

[William O.]

See if there are any cowboy action shooting (CAS) clubs in your area that you can trade with for pure lead, they go through a lot of cast bullets that need to be made from alloy like what you've got. I don't know how much pure lead you would have to melt into what you've got to bring it into an acceptable ratio for casting RB with; anyone got an answer to that question?

 

[J.D.]

That alloy will work good in smoothbores, but not in rifles. If you plan on getting a smoothbore, it will make fine balls.

 

[Bill Hall]

Years ago, when I first started pipefitting, 50/50 solder could still be used legally. that's 50% lead and 50% tin. If the 40 in your mix is lead, then it's even harder than that old solder. Pretty hard stuff.

Being that hard, it's going to give you all the problems mentioned by Paul. I think the only way to get it to work would be to use a waaay undersized ball, with a really thick patch, so you could get it down the barrel without a hammer. But then you would still probably loose your gas seal, so you would have to drop down to lighter loads to try to contain the gasses behind the ball. Now your limited to lighter loads, and if your rifle likes a heavier charge, you're stuck. Just a theory, but I'll bet I'm close.

Ya, if you could get some softer lead, I think you'll have less problems. Bill

 

[saber]

if you must buy pure lead, best place is e-bay just got 50lbs for 25 buck and 8.00 shipping by priority mail

 

[NAA_Silent]

Sure beats what I found, 1/2 pig (50-55lb) for $50ish delivered. Can't find the link atm to check the actual price.

I think I'll snag the stray anode that's here, I might figure out a valid use for it eventually. If nothing else I can make sinkers.

 

[NAA_Silent]

Found the link, it was $83 delivered.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

as usual Paul V right much nailed it - the lead ball should be pure lead so's to 'upset' some and expand upon contact most of the shots on game/man were at what is now considered relatively close range and expansion was optimum rather than penetration.
60/40 lead however is no longer used by plumbers for soldering copper pipeing - which is being supplanted by pbt pipe - and the old sewer/waste cast iron pipeing which was sealed with 'oakum' hemp cord then poured lead (which was actually pure lead so it was malleable when tamped over the oakum) is replaced with pvc glued joints.
I would not use the 60/40 solder lead for anything but smokeless powder pistol bullets and then add a little tin/antimony to flow into the mold better.
hope this helps you. Blizz

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Are you saying what you have is 60% Tin and 40% lead?? If so then you need to add a bunch of lead to that alloy. Most people who are casting bullets normally like 5% or up to a 10% Tn. Tom.

 

[Eterry]

I would seek out a local scrap dealer; I bought a couple hundred pounds of pure lead from them several years back, even found 125 lbs of linotype, for the same price!! I used it for pistol bullets and felt like I had hit the jackpot! It was dirt cheap, just avoid wheelweights and give it the fingernail test. Heck, you can even sell him your lead, or maybe trade.

Good luck, Eterry

 

[nkbj]

I'm considering a .50 or .54 long gun in the future, and I was wondering if I would be OK casting balls from 60/40 tin/lead since the ball isn't pressed in like on the pistols. I have a fairly large supply of 60/40 available to me at no cost. When my current supply of .454 balls are spent, I plan on casting my own .454 as well, except those will be out of pure lead.

You could probably get the high alloy balls to work quite well after some load development. The down side would be that the balls will be of significantly lesser weight, quicker loss of velocity and reduced penetration with distance (It's slowing down faster, forget hardness for penetration). And, of course, using a lot of tin in a muzzleloading round ball is to send down range a valuable commodity that someone might be wanting to pay money for or swap.

 

[NAA_Silent]

Are you saying what you have is 60% Tin and 40% lead??

Yep. The exact mixture is 63% tin, and 37% lead. They are spent plating anodes from our plating tanks. Even tho they are "spent" they are still quite heavy.

what is the normal mixture for cartridge lead? Now you folks have me thinking of using it for 30-30 reloading.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

plumber's lead comes in 'bar' shape (it's solder about 20% tin) and 'bicuits' which is the pure lead, was melted to be poured into cast iron pipe joints then tamped tightly.
if you come across any of the 'biscuits' that's good stuff for bp gun balls/slugs.
for modern/smokeless slugs you need about 90% lead, 7% tin and 3% antimony to harden when quenched. or at tleast that's my understanding from a chat with Mike at Mastercastbullets - where I get my target shooting slugs for modern pistols.

 

[rawhide]

it will work good for cast pistol bullets like .357 or ? tried it once with the mls. couldn't hit a barn door. well I can use it if you want to get rid of it. I'll use it for my .357

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Are you saying what you have is 60% Tin and 40% lead??

Yep. The exact mixture is 63% tin, and 37% lead. They are spent plating anodes from our plating tanks. Even tho they are "spent" they are still quite heavy.

what is the normal mixture for cartridge lead? Now you folks have me thinking of using it for 30-30 reloading.

For CF rifle loading a mixture of about 5% to 10%, with the emphasis more toward 5%. Personally I do not use any when casting conicals and round balls. Just my opinion. Tom.

 

[NAA_Silent]

It's starting to sound like 1 lb 60/40 + 10 lb of pure lead should yield a batch of CF lead. I think I'll snag a stray anode and make some ingots. I can always shelf them until my research is complete. Thanks for the good info folks.