8GA load info.

[Liam Jarvis]

I have a ZOLI 8ga percussion single, its marked 5 1/2 drams and 2 oz. Any idea what would be a good starting point to load this gun with pyrodex RS ,Please.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Hi....use a 12g shot shell and tip 2oz of shot in it. Mark the case and cut it down to that length.
You can now use the same measure for your powder.
You may find a little less powder will give you a better pattern though.
Say like putting a line where 1&3/4oz of shot measures to and use that line for the powder.

Good gun by the way :thumbsup:

B.

 

[Liam Jarvis]

Thanks for the info, any specific brands of percusion caps i should use with pyrodex. This gun has the top hat type caps, and was wondering do they have different briscance like other types of primers, or are they all much the same.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Prettymuch the same. The size of the hole in the nipple is crucial for pyrodex but every Zoli I have owned was fine for that. I nearly got an 8g Zoli.....I bet they are good from an ounce up!

B :hatsoff:

 

[Liam Jarvis]

Hi....use a 12g shot shell and tip 2oz of shot in it. Mark the case and cut it down to that length.
You can now use the same measure for your powder.
You may find a little less powder will give you a better pattern though.
Say like putting a line where 1&3/4oz of shot measures to and use that line for the powder.

Good gun by the way :thumbsup:

B.

Another beginner question... If i were to use steel shot in a suitable plastic and maylar type
slit slieve, would i go by the volume of the lead shot at 2oz( about 15/8 to 1 3/4 oz , or do i weigh 2 oz of steel, and load that by volume, obviously using the 2 oz lead volume as my powder volume charge. Hope i explained that clear enough, could not think of another way of putting it.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I would definitely use a volumetric measure equal to 2oz of LEAD shot or slightly less for the powder charge.
A separate measure is needed for the steel shot be it for loading in the field or at home and must not be confused when measuring powder.

Do put a lube fibre wad (olive oil) between your shot cups to avoid the lousy plastic fouling....it melts....with out a fire wall that is!

B :thumbsup:

 

[Liam Jarvis]

I will load 15/8 oz -1 3/4 oz then in a suitable shot cup, My plan is a 1/8th nitro a lubed 1/2 inch felt wad and a top card on top of that, a TPS or Multi metal 10ga shot cup expanded with a dowel and a heat gun right to the base, then slit 2 thirds down just three slits that slides down nice then top the whole lot off with a top card. I think i will start with 130grain of pyro RS I have some Goex FFG but i have more or less given up on that with my experimentation with Lead shot.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Try omitting the nitro card.....not needed in my experience! They usually make loading much more difficult.

What was wrong with the Goex?

B.

 

[Liam Jarvis]

Try omitting the nitro card.....not needed in my experience! They usually make loading much more difficult.

What was wrong with the Goex?

B.

I will try it without the nittro card,see how it patterns with the 2 oz Lead BBs. I have got the heat reforming of 10GA wads worked out, and i used Ballistic pattern drivers for the lead loads.
The goex was dirty by comparison, and it just did not pattern as well as the Pyrodex rs its as plain as that. I did not chronograph the loads yesterday but will next time, the best of 5 goex got 51 pellets in 30 inch at 50 yards where as the pyrodex put 74 in 30 inch it was so consistent the worst was 70 in the 5 shot string that is brilliant in my opinion, that's about 5 dram approx by volume 9ccs calculated at 16grains per cc.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thats very interesting and now I wish I got one!

Now then....the fouling! Were you using any lube on the wads? It is crucial the bore is kept moist be it spit or other.
This is my main reason for not using thick nitro cards that scrape any foul softening lube from the bore during firing.
A thin overshot card is all that is needed if the gun is to be charged any length of time and a concern about any oil leeching in the powder.
Olive oil on a fibre wad does and will keep the fouling soft Sir and Black is less corrosive and cheaper than pyrodex!
Another thing to try is a couple of over shot cards thumbed in then a blob of homemade lube.....vasaline will do...couple more overshots and ram.
:thumbsup:
Have fun

 

[Liam Jarvis]

Yes i used a 50 to 50 saddle soap and lathe oil lube its sticky when it dries but soaks in to the felt nice but not unpleasant to handle at all. Barrel fouling with the BP was tougher to move . i am a little cautious about too much lube in this or any shotgun.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Yes i used a 50 to 50 saddle soap and lathe oil lube its sticky when it dries but soaks in to the felt nice but not unpleasant to handle at all. Barrel fouling with the BP was tougher to move . i am a little cautious about too much lube in this or any shotgun.

Lathe oil...as in mineral based water soluble oil?

If so, that will be the problem!

 

[Liam Jarvis]

It is water soluble but not sure if it is mineral based cooltool light, lathe and mill coolant oil.
Will that cause fouling to be worse.? Reason i used this is if you use oil vegitable or otherwise on lathes / mills they smoke like crazy its not a coolant as such , where as this stuff lubes without any smoking, so guessed it would not make carbon deposits as easily while lubing.

 

[Britsmoothy]

It is water soluble but not sure if it is mineral based cooltool light, lathe and mill coolant oil.
Will that cause fouling to be worse.? Reason i used this is if you use oil vegitable or otherwise on lathes / mills they smoke like crazy its not a coolant as such , where as this stuff lubes without any smoking, so guessed it would not make carbon deposits as easily while lubing.

All I know is this...mineral based oils create a tar like substance with blackpowder. Veg oil holds the deposits in suspension and so no gumming develops.

The mineral oiled gum then resists the water best used to clean the gun with. Water is needed to dissolve the salts in the residue, the more the better. Veg oil especially olive gives way to the water readily especially hot water. The smoking does not matter or any cooling ability for that matter.

I have made lube from beeswax and olive oil, beef fat and olive oil and my least favourite, candle wax and olive oil. Or just straight olive oil soaked fibre wads. I never ever get a fouling issue and cleaning is very easy...ten minutes at most. I have even stored a gun charged minus shot for months bore/s just swabbed in olive oil an occasional check and no rust.

Another thing on patterns, It could be the 2f was ramming the wad/s into the rear of the emerging shot column, a syndrome often mis understood but has been proven on the pattern board many times by resembling a dough nut pattern!
Black powder creates huge amounts of gas that likes to escape all at once in a rush! A faster or smaller granulation often helps It is interesting you found better results with the pyro....a3fff equivalent!

B :thumbsup:

 

[Grenadier1758]

There's 27.34375 grains to a dram. Your 5.5 dram load comes to a little over 150 grains of powder. You might find an effective load with a bit less powder.

 

[Liam Jarvis]

It is water soluble but not sure if it is mineral based cooltool light, lathe and mill coolant oil.
Will that cause fouling to be worse.? Reason i used this is if you use oil vegitable or otherwise on lathes / mills they smoke like crazy its not a coolant as such , where as this stuff lubes without any smoking, so guessed it would not make carbon deposits as easily while lubing.

All I know is this...mineral based oils create a tar like substance with blackpowder. Veg oil holds the deposits in suspension and so no gumming develops.

The mineral oiled gum then resists the water best used to clean the gun with. Water is needed to dissolve the salts in the residue, the more the better. Veg oil especially olive gives way to the water readily especially hot water. The smoking does not matter or any cooling ability for that matter.

I have made lube from beeswax and olive oil, beef fat and olive oil and my least favourite, candle wax and olive oil. Or just straight olive oil soaked fibre wads. I never ever get a fouling issue and cleaning is very easy...ten minutes at most. I have even stored a gun charged minus shot for months bore/s just swabbed in olive oil an occasional check and no rust.

Another thing on patterns, It could be the 2f was ramming the wad/s into the rear of the emerging shot column, a syndrome often mis understood but has been proven on the pattern board many times by resembling a dough nut pattern!
Black powder creates huge amounts of gas that likes to escape all at once in a rush! A faster or smaller granulation often helps It is interesting you found better results with the pyro....a3fff equivalent!

B :thumbsup:

That is interesting thank you, i will try the olive oil, it sounds ideal and i can not imagine it being unpleasant and too sticky.

 

[Liam Jarvis]

There's 27.34375 grains to a dram. Your 5.5 dram load comes to a little over 150 grains of powder. You might find an effective load with a bit less powder.

Well i did it by volume of black and pyrodex, it works out at about 145 grains, so the slightly under charge you recommend as worked, i am happy with the pyrodex performance, if i can get the BP going as well i will be happy.

 

[aeatwood]

I would NOT use iron/steel shot in a ml shotgun. 1) it might damage the soft steel in spite of the shot cup. Older suppository guns are damaged by it.

Try some Goex 1F. If you are shooting clays, spit down the barrel after you pour the shot. Or give a squirt from a spray bottle, then ram OS wad. It will wipe the fouling so you never have to deal with more than the fouling from one shot.

My 8ga trap gun is full choke, and patterns well with square loads from 7/8oz up. (talk about your short shot string). It's fairly light, and I maxed my comfort level out w/ 1 3/8 oz square loads. That much #8 shot will pretty much splatter a flock of grackels, btw.