A question about pyrodex

[Bucks Co]

Independant Tests?? - 2 come to mind: 1 run in a British magazine and one done by a local shooter here: They were pretty much the same: 3 pieces of clean - degreased steel: 1 a control; 1 with a quantity of Black Powder burnt on it and the 3rd with a similar quantity of Pyrodex burnt on it. The pieces were then left to see what would happen- I can't remember the time intervals at which the local guy checked the pieces but at the end the control had a light specking of rust as you would expect from unprotected steel; the BP sample had an even coat of light rust with no pitting; Pyrodex had caused flakey rust with deep pitting. As for temperature my reading leads me to believe that BP burns at 1300 - 1500 degrees C and Pyrodex at about 4500 Degrees. As I said; fastidious cleaning will help if you have to use Pyrodex.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Respectfully, barrels are made of steel, which melts at temperatures between 1371 and 1540 degrees Celsius, or 2500 - 2800 degrees Fahrenheit.

4500 degrees for Pyrodex? Are we sure about that? Seems like there wouldn’t be much barrel left to clean.

Notchy Bob

 

[Grenadier1758]

We need to go back to 2009 when this topic was previously discussed on the Forum. Do pay attention to the temperature units as some of the posters play fast and loose with Fahrenheit and Celsius degrees.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/ignition-temperatures.44590/

What should concern us is the ignition temperature of the powders and a little less on what the burning temperature is.

While there are some differences on what the ignition temperature of black powder is the black powder temperature of ignition is markedly lower than that of Pyrodex or Triple 7.

Now back to address @Sir Boniface Harrison's concerns, if only Pyrodex is available for use in his percussion firearms, then Pyrodex or Triple 7 can be used. Knowing that these substitutes require a higher ignition temperature than black powder, he should be using a nipple designed to send more heat to the powder charge, a percussion cap that delivers more heat to the powder charge such as a magnum cap or the RWS 1075 Plus or a duplex load of about 5 grains or black powder. Or all of the previous.

The precaution that must be followed is the cleaning as soon as possible of the fouling from the firearm. The fouling from the substitutes can be cleaned with the water and soap cleaning regimen we use for black powder. He should do a quick wipe of the fouling at the range to start protecting the bores if deep cleaning is prohibited at his range.

 

[LME]

Respectfully, barrels are made of steel, which melts at temperatures between 1371 and 1540 degrees Celsius, or 2500 - 2800 degrees Fahrenheit.

4500 degrees for Pyrodex? Are we sure about that? Seems like there wouldn’t be much barrel left to clean.

Notchy Bob

Being the explosion that takes place in the barrel of a rifle is less that a second the heat is minor. If you shoot many rounds one behind another heat will build up but not very much considering how hot the flash heat is?

 

[AlexB]

"A common substitute is Pyrodex®, which has an ignition temperature of approximately 750 °F and is regulated as a Class B flammable solid."


Time for some reality..........ffs.

 

[yellowhammer]

...As for temperature my reading leads me to believe that BP burns at xxxx - yyyy degrees C and Pyrodex at about zzzz Degrees...

@Bucks Co no offense, but the hot gas is only in there for milliseconds - it and the patch and ball are gone before significant heat transfer to the barrel can take place. That's why there is no significant difference in effects on recovered patches between the two regardless of what the actual stoichiometric gas temperature is.

Edited to add: Sorry @LME - didn't see your post! You said it first!

 

[Antelope Pete]

20 plus years ago for hunting I would put a dry patch down first. If I used Pyrodex it would commonly burn the patch and sometimes it would be smoking on the ground so I quit doing that. B.P. didn't do that.

 

[Sun City]

I'm confused about what the OP means by "priming" his Pyrodex load "with a pinch of BP". Does he mean using Pyrodex as the main charge and BP in the flash pan of a flintlock? No problem. Does he mean mixing in a little "pinch" of BP into his Pyrodex load? I don't think that's supposed to be done, but don't recall exactly what the consequences could be.

It's called a duplex load aka BP in breech with something else atop it!

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Another overblown thread on Pyrodex...well the pages here have to be filled with something...

 

[yellowhammer]

Another overblown thread on Pyrodex...well the pages here have to be filled with something...

 

[Wes]

Currently BP is difficult to get in France. I still have plenty, but I like to have several pounds at my disposal. To this effect. I have bought myself 2 canisters of Pyrodex. I have heard that this propellant is slightly more difficult to ignite than normal BP. So, my question is: would it be alright to 'prime' my pyrodex load with a pinch of BP? is this neccessary? Or, is it somehow dangerous or just plain ineffective?

I put in a musket nipple and started using musket caps and haven’t had any problems with Pyrodex

 

[Notchy Bob]

Being the explosion that takes place in the barrel of a rifle is less that a second the heat is minor. If you shoot many rounds one behind another heat will build up but not very much considering how hot the flash heat is?

Absolutely. The intense heat is only momentary, and there is no doubt it is pretty hot. However, I was questioning the temperature quoted. 2500 - 2800 degrees Farenheit is really hot. Lava flowing through the tubes of a volcano is no more than 2200.

Notchy Bob

 

[Frontier's]

Ready to make some smoke!

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Frontier's, if your only propellant is that bottle of Pyrodex and you don't have some real black powder to use as a kick starter in the bore and in the pan in that flint lock rifle, then you may be preparing for some failure to fire and demonstrating how to pull a ball from a charge that won't fire.

 

[shorthair]

Currently BP is difficult to get in France. I still have plenty, but I like to have several pounds at my disposal. To this effect. I have bought myself 2 canisters of Pyrodex. I have heard that this propellant is slightly more difficult to ignite than normal BP. So, my question is: would it be alright to 'prime' my pyrodex load with a pinch of BP? is this neccessary? Or, is it somehow dangerous or just plain ineffective?

Iirc Black powder has an ignition temperature of 350 degrees and pyrodex about 600 degrees, so in a say 60 grain load if the first 10 grains were fffg that should work well for igniting the pyrodex but it would be a little pita .

 

[longcruise]

Iirc Black powder has an ignition temperature of 350 degrees and pyrodex about 600 degrees, so in a say 60 grain load if the first 10 grains were fffg that should work well for igniting the pyrodex but it would be a little pita .

I think the ignition temperature is closer to 450f but that is irrelevant to your advice. A ten grain BP charge under the Pyrodex should be very effective.

I'll add that my DIY caps are noticeably hotter than commercial caps and I suspect that they would set off any of the subs without a hitch. No help their for a flintlock though.