a scary story - blown up gun.

[mikemeteor]

A scary story from last weekend.
A friend in WV took his Lyman percussion out to sight in prior to deer season.
First cap, nothing. 2nd cap, nothing. Took nipple off and cleaned out “gunk”.
3rd cap: BOOM ! Blew up in his hands.
He’s left-handed, so his right hand took the brunt.
Ran out of woods to nearest house, and off to emergency room.
Lost a fingertip, and thumbpad area is hamburger from the wood fragments.

I asked him to send me pics of what was left of the gun.
The landowner had gone out later and picked up what he could find.
No breech parts were found.
I'm guessing that separate V-shaped piece is a barrel flat - the good Lord was with him if that was flying around at high speed.

I don’t have all the details, and I don’t own nor have ever shot a percussion gun, but I asked my friend what he thought happened.
This was the first shooting he attempted this year.
He was 100% certain that he did not double load.
Did not leave it loaded from last year.
He had loaded a plastic-cased sabot.
I asked him if it was possible he short-loaded it.
He said “I suppose it’s possible, but I don’t think so, I did what I always do”¦”.
Anyway, from the looks of the barrel, he’s lucky it was just his hand that got damaged, and he knows that.
He says he may stick to fly fishing now.

To be clear, I AM NOT knocking Lyman here, I don’t know what happened, but I suspect it was user error somehow, somewhere.
I know nothing about use of sabots.
Let’s be careful out there !
/mm

 

[yakimaman]

How much smokeless powder did he put in there?

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I feel sorry for the poor bastard, but I have to say it does indeed look like smokeless powder did this!

I'm also a little concerned in general for the following reasons:

This fellow used this gun for the first time all year just last weekend? And it had crud in it from improper cleaning since last year? Took THREE caps to get through the crud & oil to make it go BOOM? Using plastic sabots in a traditional percussion sidelock? To me, all of this adds-up to a series of mistakes, which then reinforces the probability that he used SMOKELESS powder to do this! So have your friend stick to fishing, and tell him to be careful with the barbs!

Just a FYI:

All of the Italian imports like Lyman (I own & use Lyman rifles to win Matches & cut playing cards in-half) are PROOF tested with at least a double charge and stamped as such on the barrel, so even a double load wouldn't do this IMHO.

Dave
NRA CRSO

 

[jamesthomas]

How much smokeless powder did he put in there?

That is my thought also, Blackpowder will "Ring" a barrel before exploding it like that IMHO. If he was using a sabot :shake: he also MIGHT have used smokeless. Also how much does he shoot blackpowder ?, Imo if he's using a sabot in a caplock not much.

 

[Many Klatch]

It would be interesting to inspect the inside of the barrel with a magnifying glass. Along with the rest of his mistakes, I wonder if he has forgotten to clean the bore. Severe rust could weaken the barrel. First time I have ever heard of anyone managing to blow up a GPR

Many Klatch

 

[don hepler]

I agree, my first question to him, would be to find out, what kind of powder and how much.

 

[mikemeteor]

i will ask him about powder.
he was still a bit shook up when I talked with him earlier, so I wasn't really going into full interrogation mode.
have to say, tho, I will be shocked if he used smokeless powder.
we're not super close friends, in the sense I don't know his hunting habits, but I dont think he'd be that careless.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

My thought is smokeless powder. Maybe not intentional. Mislabeled or mixed with BP? The misfires could have been oil settled in the breech from the last cleaning but I wonder how hard it is to ignite smokeless with a percussion cap.

Let us know if the shooter finds the cause. GW

 

[ord sgt]

A man wanted to shoot his new M/Ler at our range. Range officer heard a very loud boom. Walked over to watch. There was the man getting ready to load another charge of smokeless powder. RO stopped him.
Brand new M/L, fresh from the gun shop. Salesman sold him the smokeless powder, along with the new rifle.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Like others, my first thought is smokeless powder.

 

[Dphar]

This is not from short starting.
I would have to see it but I bet its a propellant issue. Though its possible its the barrel steel I doubt it unless its an American made barrel since most on the market are deficient being made of leaded screw stock.
If he was using T7 this could be a problem, but pretty remote, Blackthorn 209 not good (it and t7 are really meant for inlines with a hot PRIMER ignition) or another cartridge type smokeless a BIG problem since it will make too much pressure and will not be properly ignited by a cap which WILL cause problems even with a modern brass suppository gun. Smokeless really does not like "soft" ignition and a "traditional" percussion ML design with a cap is WAY too soft. Poorly lit smokeless rifle/pistol powder with blow ANY firearm.
So you need to get him to send you a photo of the actual propellant used. Not the container the POWDER itself. Bet its not BP. Some of the "replica" powders may not age well and could be a factor too.
This is what comes from just having a ML that is used just for deer season. No real background knowledge I would bet other than needing it for a ML deer season. Thus the plastic sabot, surely a bullet, who knows what powder and "gunk" in the flash channel. All signs of someone who really does not understand a ML.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

The GP rifle is made in Italy and Pedersoli at least uses a European modern barrel steel grade steel. What Investarms uses I could not say.

Dan

 

[Billnpatti]

Dollars to doughnuts it was smokeless powder. I've seen several pictures of guns damaged by improper loading of black powder and none looked like this. The kind of damage in the pictures is characteristic of smokeless powder. Only the shooter can tell you how smokeless powder got into his gun. Such a shame that he was injured in this way. I hope he recovers quickly.

 

[cynthialee]

Sabotage

Anyone have access to his firearm when he wasn't around?

 

[TLanoy]

I am not an expert nor have I been muzzleloading as long as most folks on this sight. But, after watching the video at the top of this forum, I am inclined to believe that accident was from the wrong powder being loaded. Only the shooter knows. :idunno:

 

[David W.]

I have to agree with the "wrong powder" cause. How much experience does the guy have? Did he ask the clerk for black powder, and the clerk said, "well, this powder is black".

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Even third hand, this sounds crazy. He didn't pop a few caps before loading? Didn't wash the oil out with alcohol before going to the range? This guy could not possibly have followed some of the basic every range trip routine most of us go through.

My take, the gun was still loaded from last year and he put another elephant charge down on top that one. The old powder absorbed enough moisture to foul under the nipple and in the flash channel. When the old charge went off and slammed the new charge between two sabots, things went to heck real quick. A little blow by lit the new charge and voila! ... instajunk

 

[yakimaman]

I've seen these blown up gun threads a couple dozen times on the internet over the years. Do you know what I have never seen in any of them?

I've never seen one of these blown M/L sent to a lab for forensic analysis.

It's always pages of speculation with no actual facts to back any of it up.

If you can get him to give you that rifle and all the broken pieces they managed to recover, I can try to get a friend of mine at Kansas State to run it through their forensics department(powder residue analysis, metallurgical analysis, x-ray...whatever else they can think to test for). It might make an interesting paper for a Student.

We might be able to get real answers for once instead of internet speculation.

Colin

There is a complete lab analysis of THE blown up Bess that you have access to on the MVTC site

 

[Spikebuck]

after watching the video at the top of this forum

Thanks for pointing that out. I had never watched it. And other than the fact that this guy starts out a safety video with several guns aimed at his own head :youcrazy: it was definitely worth the watch (oh...and that he perpetuates the myth that one should never use 3F in a rifle).

 

[hanshi]

:hmm: A fouled bore won't do it and neither will a double charge. A catastrophic event like this speaks of high pressures and pressures that peak in the breech. black powder won't do this; smokeless will.