a scary story - blown up gun.

[David W.]

Looks like he used smokeless powder.
it looks just like the barrels used in these tests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsBF6CXs18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WgVRMUGzm24

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Looks like he used smokeless powder.
it looks just like the barrels used in these tests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsBF6CXs18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WgVRMUGzm24

Beer & shooting what could go wrong I know its blown up, but could the bald guy point that six shooter at any more people? I'll bet there are still loads in those bent chambers, and god only knows whats back pressured where :shocked2:

 

[Wes/Tex]

...and what they could possibly loaded in that thing! Reminds me of Foxworthy's line about the redneck's last words, "Ya'll hold my beer and watch this!"

 

[Stumpkiller]

You never hear such stories start with . . . "So, this past weekend my friend was shooting blackpowder and patched round balls . . ."

 

[George T.]

Another vote for smokeless powder being used. I doubt that you could put enough black powder in a firearm in good condition to do that! Your right the shooter was very lucky.

Geo. T.

 

[Oudoceus]

Looks like smokeless to me. Yes, some clerks will try to sell you smokeless. I once asked a clerk if they had black powder and was told, "Yes some of these powders are black" as he pointed to the shelf of smokeless powders.

 

[RedFeather]

Best just to wait and see what his load was. One of my bp books had a picture of a blown up gun where the owner was suing the manufacturer. Fellow investigating it eventually found the shooter was using pistol ball. Even smokeless reloaders get careless and mix up powders. Cans can look alike, etc.

He should recover that gun and keep it by his gun gear. Lucky he wasn't killed.

 

[AZbpBurner]

If indeed it was smokeless powder recommended by an ignorant clerk, I smell a lawsuit brewing.

 

[Pigman]

It may not have been the shooter who put the wrong powder in. Some one else (a kid perhaps) tried to fire it with smokeless and it would not go off. Knowing they did something wrong they put it back and said nothing. later the shooter thought it was empty and was popping a cap. Then it would blow in his hand. He still should have dropped a ramrod to check if it was loaded. But how many times have we all taken an empty weapon to the range and popped a cap before loading.

Foster From Flint

 

[cynthialee]

It may not have been the shooter who put the wrong powder in. Some one else (a kid perhaps) tried to fire it with smokeless and it would not go off. Knowing they did something wrong they put it back and said nothing. later the shooter thought it was empty and was popping a cap. Then it would blow in his hand. He still should have dropped a ramrod to check if it was loaded. But how many times have we all taken an empty weapon to the range and popped a cap before loading.

Foster From Flint

That scenario is scary and possible.
If it was a kid bet they emptied a shotgun shell or a bullet to get powder to use.

 

[Wes/Tex]

After watching the video a couple more times, I'm going with gun had smokeless and they knew it was loaded. You don't use a two-hand, supported hold to clear chambers with caps. The groups's reaction says they were expecting a real shot to go off along with the several seconds for anyone to notice the gun was damaged. Ever since the smokeless powder muzzleloader came out I've been waiting for this kind of stuff to happen.

 

[necchi]

Well let's just hope your friend heals proper and get's the use of his thumb back.

Maybe once he's had a chance to clear his mind and re-think it we'll find out what really caused the accident.

 

[Adui]

Actually, if your friend uses Pyrodex instead of real black I could see this mistake easily happening. I do reload, and though I have never done a side by side comparison of Pyrodex to any of the ball type smokeless I have, I do think they would be very similar. Especially Pyrodex P.

Now I'm scared... (I guess its another reason for me to bite the bullet and get some real black)

 

[Roguedog]

No doubt that extremely high pressures were generated, more so than could be achieved using simply black powder or blackpowder subs. I would imagine it would be almost impossible to duplicate this kind of destruction using only blackpowder even if you tried. Essentially, this guy had a pipe bomb blow up in front of his face! I'm glad he was not killed and agree that this should be a lesson for us all to be just a little bit more careful about our storage procedures.

Jeff

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I don't know his hunting habits, but I dont think he'd be that careless

It's probably a combination of factors. Some of the shotgun/pistol powders are very similar. (iirc) 700x is black flakes, and Win 231 is gray granules. Now to those of us who use black powder all the time, we can see these at a glance, but a relative novice?

Then you have the fact that they use the same powder containers to package the powder, simply changing the labels. So say one was using a BP substitute such as Pyrodex Select or Aliant Black MZ, which comes in the same black plastic container and has a black label just as IMR 800x or Winchester AA.

Not only is the type of damage consistent with smokeless loading..., I'll bet either the shooter confused a can of 800X with a BP substitute or the clerk at the shop where he bought it did so.

LD

 

[dave524]

I don't know his hunting habits, but I dont think he'd be that careless

It's probably a combination of factors. Some of the shotgun/pistol powders are very similar. (iirc) 700x is black flakes, and Win 231 is gray granules. Now to those of us who use black powder all the time, we can see these at a glance, but a relative novice?

Then you have the fact that they use the same powder containers to package the powder, simply changing the labels. So say one was using a BP substitute such as Pyrodex Select or Aliant Black MZ, which comes in the same black plastic container and has a black label just as IMR 800x or Winchester AA.

Not only is the type of damage consistent with smokeless loading..., I'll bet either the shooter confused a can of 800X with a BP substitute or the clerk at the shop where he bought it did so.

LD

I don't see if it has been confirmed that the fellow was a reloader with smokeless in his home. Would be pretty hard to have a mixup if he wasn't .

 

[Mickc01]

Looks like he used smokeless powder.
it looks just like the barrels used in these tests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsBF6CXs18

Interesting video!! At least he's blowing up in-lines

 

[RedFeather]

When you talk to your friend, ask if that was a used gun and the first time he shot it? Might be a previous owner tried a smokeless or duplex load, over-stressing it. Since the gun had a saboted round, it might have had one of those popular inline 150+ grain pellets loads. That might do in a stressed barrel. Come to think of it, if you popped a couple of caps without ignition, would it move the load down the barrel? Might a heavy charge of those pellets in an airspace rupture a barrel? Consider that light loads have been known to ring .45-70 Springfield Trap Door chambers.

 

[Dphar]

Even third hand, this sounds crazy. He didn't pop a few caps before loading? Didn't wash the oil out with alcohol before going to the range? This guy could not possibly have followed some of the basic every range trip routine most of us go through.

My take, the gun was still loaded from last year and he put another elephant charge down on top that one. The old powder absorbed enough moisture to foul under the nipple and in the flash channel. When the old charge went off and slammed the new charge between two sabots, things went to heck real quick. A little blow by lit the new charge and voila! ... instajunk

A double load (powder-ball-powder-ball) of BP will not blow a barrel made of an actual barrel steel alloy even a light weight swamp. I know this.
But I have seen photos of barrels made of leaded screw stock blow even worse than this with BP at least the fouling was apparently BP fouling.
Then we have the apparent lack of fouling on the blown pieces shown here which indicates something that does not make much fouling.
But if the Lymans use the same steel Pedersoli uses its not going to blow like this. BP simply will not make enough pressure to do this to a modern gun barrel steel barrel.
Its extremely difficult if not impossible to make the normal operating pressure seen in a modern rifle cartridge like .308 or in Military ammo which is often loaded to even higher pressure. The 5.56 is loaded hotter than 223 for example and 5.56 is not safe in a 223 chamber. Chamber pressures of 50000 to 60000 are normal. Proof loads run 70000 or more in some cases. BP will not exceed 100000 even in closed bomb tests.
I also know that a 4150 alloy 30-06 barrel made in 1942 will not burst, at least this one did not, when fired with an obstruction near the muzzle.
In this case, if he DID load it with smokeless or one of the replica powders these do not react as BP does since they are NOT BP or in reality anything like it. Too much compression put on Pyrodex (as in a BP Cartridge rifle loading) and the pressure spikes and at least one TD Springfield was burst this way.
So how they react to pressure, compression and in the case of true smokeless poor quality ignition is an entirely different situation than BP. Improperly ignited smokeless, usually too little in the cartridge case so the powder does not comer the flash hole in the case , regardless of powder type can disable the powders burn rate inhibitors and it will then become a high explosive and will destroy ANY firearm its used in. The caplock system, other than the inline ignition such as a caplock revolver simply will not properly ignite smokeless and even then the cap is relatively weak compared to a modern primer.
So I bet it was smokeless of one short or another.
Dan

 

[MattC]

Perhaps if you cross the 'smokeless muzzleloader' wires with the "Magnum Load" in the mind of someone who doesn't spend as much time with them as we do, you can end up with smokeless powder in traditional muzzleloaders.

I'm learning alot about powders and pressures with this site and conversations like this, so I hope others can learn as well.