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Anyone with recent experience taking muzzleloader to Africa? Issue seems to be powder, which cannot be taken on a airplane.
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African Hunting
- Thread starter Westporter
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jrmflintlock
45 Cal.
I don't have firsthand experience, but I know people do it. I knew a Dr. who used to go. and My Gunbuilding Mentor used to build 4 and 8 bores for a client to take to Africa. I think The PH orders the powder you need and jumps through the hoops to get it.
Went to Namibia a few years ago and planned to take a flintlock. Requested a photograph of the container for the powder the PH would be getting for me. It turned out to be a sub that the supplier said would work fine. I went to Africa, but the flintlock stayed home.
No matter what you are told, have a backup plan, either take a modern cartridge gun and ammunition with you or arrange with the PH to use one of their guns.
We had a gentleman on the forum from Australia that has been to Africa a number of times in several countries, but I believe he used his capper, not a flinter. His PH's had WANO black powder on hand, if I recall correctly.
I am a retired PH and worked in RSA much. The laws are different as of 2014. Here is the verbage from one of my brochures from RSA (other Countries have different rules):
Do I need to belong to a club or association in order to legally possess a muzzle loader?
There is no determination in the Firearms Control Act that an owner of a firearm must belong to a shooting club or gun association. Neither is there any determination in the Act that one must belong to a club or association in order to legally possess a muzzle loading cannon, which is a muzzle loading firearm by the Act's definition in Section 1.
May I build my own muzzle loader?
Note that although section 45(1) of the Firearms Control Act prohibits the manufacturing of any firearm unless you are in possession of a manufacturer license, the definition of "firearm" in Section 1 of the Firearms Control Act excludes any device contemplated in section 5 of the Act - which by definition includes muzzle loaders. Therefore it should be legal for you to build your own muzzle loader, but it is strongly advised that you not do so unless you had sufficient training and that it should be proof fired by a competent person before using it.
Where can I buy a muzzle loader?
You may be able to buy a muzzle loader from a firearms dealer who specializes in antique firearms, such as Classic Arms.
Would I need a license to possess a muzzle loader?
No. A muzzle loader falls within the definition of a "muzzle loading firearm" in terms of Section 1 of the Firearms Control Act (as amended). (The definition of a muzzle loading firearm in the Act makes no mention of caliber.) In terms of section 5(e) of the Firearms Control Act (as amended), muzzle loading firearms are devices not considered as firearms for the purposes of the Act. Therefore you don't need a license for a muzzle loader. However, you would need a muzzle loading competency certificate in terms of section 9(1) of the Firearms Control Act (as amended)..
How can I obtain a black powder competency certificate?
You need to do a muzzle loading firearms course, which should be available from any firearms dealer who provides firearms training, such as Parow Arms. If you have not already done so in terms of an ordinary firearm, you will need to do a course on the Firearms Control Act as well. After the successful completion of the required courses, you need to apply for a black powder competency certificate at your local branch of the South African Police Services (SAPS).
Where would I be able to get black powder for my muzzle loader?
You would be able to obtain black powder from firearms dealers who stock black powder firearms, such as Safari & Outdoor. You could also apply for a customer number at AEL in Macassar (phone 021 842 3901) and purchase directly from them. However, you will need a valid black powder permit in order to buy the black powder. Please note that it is illegal to buy explosives (i.e. any kind of powder that you could use in your muzzle loader) from anyone who does not possess a dealers license. You may also not sell black powder to anyone unless you are in possession of a dealers license. Furthermore, you may not receive as a gift or donate black powder.
Where can I get a black powder permit?
You will need to apply for a black powder permit at the Explosives Branch of the South African Police Services (SAPS) closest to you.
What will be required from me when applying for a black powder permit?
Currently you will need to possess a black powder pistol, revolver or rifle in order to apply for a black powder permit. (Please note that black powder revolvers must be licensed, as they do not fall within the definition of "muzzle loading firearms" in the Firearms Control Act (as amended), as they can fire more than one shot before reloading is required.) Since 31 July 2012, one can only buy a black powder firearm legally if one is in possession of a valid black powder competency certificate.
May I lend my muzzle loader to someone else or borrow someone else's muzzle loader?
As a muzzle loader is a device not considered to be a firearm in terms of the Firearms Control Act (as amended), you may borrow some else's muzzle loader, as it is not licensed to a specific person. However, you must be in possession of a valid black powder competency certificate to be in legal possession of a muzzle loader. The same principles apply when you lend your muzzle loader to someone else.
May I allow someone else to fire my muzzle loader?
Firing a muzzle loader involves the using of explosives. The Explosives Act stipulates that no-one may use explosives unless they are in possession of a valid permit, unless they are using it under the constant and direct supervision of someone who is in possession of a valid permit.
What are the requirements for the transportation of black powder?
Black powder must be transported in its original container. A maximum of 5kg may be transported in a vehicle, provided that it is accompanied by the holders of valid black powder permits that in total make provision for that quantity of powder.
What are the requirements for storing black powder?
Black powder must be stored in a safe, lockable steel cabinet or sturdy cupboard and the original permit must be kept with the black powder or close by.
May one use someone else's permit to buy or transport black powder?
Absolutely not.
Here's the deal. You need to have about two days extra at the start of your trip. You need to go to an appropriate dealer and apply for and take the FCA test and when you pass, you can immediately take the MLC test. When you pass this, you need to go to the South African Police Service and obtain a black powder purchase permit. Go to an authorized dealer and buy it. When you are done with the hunt, you will have to turn in the remaining powder to the SAPS. You cannot "gift" it to someone else. If you want to use "real" black powder this is the "new" procedure. If you have a muzzleloading safety class or hunting stamp from the USA, a company called Air2000 can help you obtain the permits for a hunt by sending them required documents (and I recommend them for gun permits and concierge service at the airport). You will have the permit before you arrive in RSA. The other option is to use "Black Powder Substitute". There is a process for obtaining this, but it is a heck of a lot easier than getting the real deal. You still need the MLC test and certificate and the purchase permit. You can buy Sannadex from a lot more places than real BP. The paperwork is the same but the availability is greater with subs.
Do I need to belong to a club or association in order to legally possess a muzzle loader?
There is no determination in the Firearms Control Act that an owner of a firearm must belong to a shooting club or gun association. Neither is there any determination in the Act that one must belong to a club or association in order to legally possess a muzzle loading cannon, which is a muzzle loading firearm by the Act's definition in Section 1.
May I build my own muzzle loader?
Note that although section 45(1) of the Firearms Control Act prohibits the manufacturing of any firearm unless you are in possession of a manufacturer license, the definition of "firearm" in Section 1 of the Firearms Control Act excludes any device contemplated in section 5 of the Act - which by definition includes muzzle loaders. Therefore it should be legal for you to build your own muzzle loader, but it is strongly advised that you not do so unless you had sufficient training and that it should be proof fired by a competent person before using it.
Where can I buy a muzzle loader?
You may be able to buy a muzzle loader from a firearms dealer who specializes in antique firearms, such as Classic Arms.
Would I need a license to possess a muzzle loader?
No. A muzzle loader falls within the definition of a "muzzle loading firearm" in terms of Section 1 of the Firearms Control Act (as amended). (The definition of a muzzle loading firearm in the Act makes no mention of caliber.) In terms of section 5(e) of the Firearms Control Act (as amended), muzzle loading firearms are devices not considered as firearms for the purposes of the Act. Therefore you don't need a license for a muzzle loader. However, you would need a muzzle loading competency certificate in terms of section 9(1) of the Firearms Control Act (as amended)..
How can I obtain a black powder competency certificate?
You need to do a muzzle loading firearms course, which should be available from any firearms dealer who provides firearms training, such as Parow Arms. If you have not already done so in terms of an ordinary firearm, you will need to do a course on the Firearms Control Act as well. After the successful completion of the required courses, you need to apply for a black powder competency certificate at your local branch of the South African Police Services (SAPS).
Where would I be able to get black powder for my muzzle loader?
You would be able to obtain black powder from firearms dealers who stock black powder firearms, such as Safari & Outdoor. You could also apply for a customer number at AEL in Macassar (phone 021 842 3901) and purchase directly from them. However, you will need a valid black powder permit in order to buy the black powder. Please note that it is illegal to buy explosives (i.e. any kind of powder that you could use in your muzzle loader) from anyone who does not possess a dealers license. You may also not sell black powder to anyone unless you are in possession of a dealers license. Furthermore, you may not receive as a gift or donate black powder.
Where can I get a black powder permit?
You will need to apply for a black powder permit at the Explosives Branch of the South African Police Services (SAPS) closest to you.
What will be required from me when applying for a black powder permit?
Currently you will need to possess a black powder pistol, revolver or rifle in order to apply for a black powder permit. (Please note that black powder revolvers must be licensed, as they do not fall within the definition of "muzzle loading firearms" in the Firearms Control Act (as amended), as they can fire more than one shot before reloading is required.) Since 31 July 2012, one can only buy a black powder firearm legally if one is in possession of a valid black powder competency certificate.
May I lend my muzzle loader to someone else or borrow someone else's muzzle loader?
As a muzzle loader is a device not considered to be a firearm in terms of the Firearms Control Act (as amended), you may borrow some else's muzzle loader, as it is not licensed to a specific person. However, you must be in possession of a valid black powder competency certificate to be in legal possession of a muzzle loader. The same principles apply when you lend your muzzle loader to someone else.
May I allow someone else to fire my muzzle loader?
Firing a muzzle loader involves the using of explosives. The Explosives Act stipulates that no-one may use explosives unless they are in possession of a valid permit, unless they are using it under the constant and direct supervision of someone who is in possession of a valid permit.
What are the requirements for the transportation of black powder?
Black powder must be transported in its original container. A maximum of 5kg may be transported in a vehicle, provided that it is accompanied by the holders of valid black powder permits that in total make provision for that quantity of powder.
What are the requirements for storing black powder?
Black powder must be stored in a safe, lockable steel cabinet or sturdy cupboard and the original permit must be kept with the black powder or close by.
May one use someone else's permit to buy or transport black powder?
Absolutely not.
Here's the deal. You need to have about two days extra at the start of your trip. You need to go to an appropriate dealer and apply for and take the FCA test and when you pass, you can immediately take the MLC test. When you pass this, you need to go to the South African Police Service and obtain a black powder purchase permit. Go to an authorized dealer and buy it. When you are done with the hunt, you will have to turn in the remaining powder to the SAPS. You cannot "gift" it to someone else. If you want to use "real" black powder this is the "new" procedure. If you have a muzzleloading safety class or hunting stamp from the USA, a company called Air2000 can help you obtain the permits for a hunt by sending them required documents (and I recommend them for gun permits and concierge service at the airport). You will have the permit before you arrive in RSA. The other option is to use "Black Powder Substitute". There is a process for obtaining this, but it is a heck of a lot easier than getting the real deal. You still need the MLC test and certificate and the purchase permit. You can buy Sannadex from a lot more places than real BP. The paperwork is the same but the availability is greater with subs.
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Sparkitoff....thanks for posting those details. It should make all of us in the U.S. cringe at the thought of what we might have to go through in the U.S. someday if people of a certain persuasion in our Gov't get their way. I would not be able to legally hand my muzzleloader to my young grandson to take a shot. When I'm shooting at the range and someone is admiring my flinter, I could not offer them to take shot and then see the big grin on their face. Instead bureaucrats would be overseeing and monitoring our every move, even with primitive arms. While they are not controlling the actual firearm itself due to defninition, it appears, they are still driving a LOT of bureaucracy on the key component to shoot that we don't have to deal with today.
My apologies, as this is probably off topic and better discussed in one of the Members Only forums at the top, but I couldn't help myself. Everyone needs to see this and think about the consequences of this kind of over-control.
My apologies, as this is probably off topic and better discussed in one of the Members Only forums at the top, but I couldn't help myself. Everyone needs to see this and think about the consequences of this kind of over-control.
I wish to point out that my post applies to RSA (the Country) not Africa (the Continent). Other Countries have different laws and rules, although RSA has historically had a slightly more conservative set of rules, like no minimum caliber on dangerous game, and permitted us of lever-action rifles. Many of the neighboring Countries that are the most popular for US sportsmen have more restrictive laws. Namibia and Botswana come to mind and Mozambique and Zimbabwe also host a high percentage of USA sportsmen.
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