Alaska Hunting--.50 PRB Enough?

[Cosmoline]

Upon reading this year's F&G manual I noticed that the old rule prohibiting PRB's in smaller than .54 cal bores has been repealed. So if I take my double rifle hunting I won't be restricted to conicals.

One of the things I've been learning reading threads on this forum is that PRB's aren't the archaic, useless objects I took them to be. And I've found they load up real nice in my rifle's bores.

Now I'm NOT planning on hunting Old Ephriam or Old Ezikiel or any other Old Testament bruins. My hunting is usually restricted to small game or at most black bear.

What I'm wondering is if the collected wise folk here think it would be plum foolish to expect a fifty cal. PRB at around 1,700 fps to stop an attack, given two barrels at my disposal. The distance involved is less than 30 yards, in fact it could be a whole lot less. I just don't know much about PRB terminal ballistics to know what kind of stopping force that would have. 1,000+ ft. lbs. is better than a .44 mag but not nearly as good as even a .30-30 in the smokeless world, but I understand different rules apply.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I believe that a PRB in a .50 cal will "get-r-done". And I could cite examples of critters as big as cows in a slaughter yard getting killed with a .22. I know people who have killed bears (Black) with bow and arrow. HERE is my question though...Why push it? With thin skinned game like deer and smaller. Maybe carribu or possible moose. These guys for the most part aint gonna rush you if you screw it up. Yah they could but probably not.
A bear, however, can get cranky when you poke holes in his hide. A ball weigs in at 175 gr which is GREAT outta my 7Mag but has inherint limitations outta a ML. MOST conicals are twice that size and more for the same caliber. My guess is that you get MORE then twice the energy hitting the animal from the conical as well.
A heart shot bear can live 7 plus seconds. A bear can keep pace witha horse in the 100 yard dash. Or in other words the bear can EASILY cover the 100 yards in 7 seconds. I guess you can thumb wrestle him when he gets there. :wink:
I understand wanting to harvets w/ a PRB too. What you might do is load both. You know a hunting barrel and a back up barrel.? That way IF you HAVE to get through skull, shoulber, or brisket you will have just a little more umphhh

 

[Blizzard of '93]

just for kicks awhile back I loaded up my .50 with PRB and shot one of the real concrete 8" blocks (not the new lay-lites) with 70gr 3F charge (my hunting load) it went through both sides shattering the section of block. I would'nt purposely go after grizz with it tho. I'd take a 58.

 

[Cosmoline]

There's no way I'd hunt brown bear with this, but there's always a chance of an encounter.

My long years with smokeless firearms tell me a conical slug is the way to go, HOWEVER, I've never had to deal with a rifle with anything like a 1:48 twist rate. I'm worried a bit that the slug will veer off in flesh because the spin isn't sufficiently great. Roundballs seem to have a fair penetration.

 

[BrownBear]

Not 50 cal and not bear, but I can provide a bit of first hand experience. Whapped a deer at 55 yards a year ago with a frontal neck shot using my 54 GPR with a ball over 90 grains of 3F. I managed to recover the ball, and it had not completely penetrated the spine, though it killed the deer.

Last season I whapped a good sized doe with the same load and shot at 20 yards. Full penetration and no ball recovered.

I wouldn't count on the RB to stop a charge unless it landed just right. But I'd rather have the extra barrel than have to fumble a second gun into play in a big hurry. You've got split seconds to act, and I'll take the second shot placed right over a more powerful gun brought into play too late.

 

[gjkershul]

Most of my PRB hunting kills were made with a .75 cal hard lead ball launched by 90 grains of 3f Goex out of a Pdersoli Brown Bess replica musket. The target was in all cases down state Michigan cornfed white tails usually runnning about 120 lbs dressed weight at under 50yds range. If I hit bone or the central nervous system they went down and stayed down. A lung shot went through and through and sometimes the animal went as much as 300yds before they dropped. There was no hydro static shock-just a 3/4 inch hole through where the ball hit. With just one shot, and at least a 15 second reload time, I think I would want the longer range option afforded by a conical bullet for anything that could bite, scratch, stomp, or eat me if it did not immediately succumb to the first shot.

 

[renovato]

I used to hunt exclusively with conicals for about 20 years. Then I found out that a .54 PRB worked better for thin skinned animals up to the size of elk or so. I'm not sure I'd use a .50 round ball for something the size of a moose though.

However, where I hunt, I don't need to worry about being attacked by critters as large as what you have in Alaska. If I did, conicals would be my choice, regardless of caliber.

 

[MercerLake]

:v IMO and it is an opinion backed by having shot several Black bear at ranges of 50' or less.
I would breathe easy with a .50 CONICAL of WW lead, not a Prb. You need bullet mass with little or no expansion to guarantee penetration and breaking bones at low velocities.
I use a .72 Kodiak with Prb, but that has far more inertia and frontal area than a .50cal Prb or conical.
"Use enough gun" and more than enough bullet! I hear folks say, "I carry a sidearm". Well that's nice,but something coming at you thru the alders at 40 mph+ I'll bet they'll never clear leather. The gun in your hand is always worth more than one your hip or in the truck.
Stopping an attack requires totally disruption of the nervous system, or breaking major bones. A bear of anykind can cover a lot of ground fast with a missing heart let alone a lung shot.
If there are no bear then a Prb would be fine, but a bear can mess you up by just running over you, let alone pausing to chew on you. :v

 

[kyle76]

Cosmoline, I'd say that if the 50 double is what you have, take it out hunting. Don't worry about bears too much. People up here are too fixated on the idea of stopping charges. Use your head and that will help you a lot more than a larger rifle. If you do get charged, your only chance will be to brain him and bear skulls are not all that heavy. Not nearly as stout as a moose shoulder joint. I'd look into trying a few wheelweight cast balls for your .50. They are usually fairly accurate up to about 50 yards and really help penetration.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Personally I would not use it. I would use atleast a 54cal PRB.

 

[Cosmoline]

Thanks for the input. If I was dealing with 1:24 twist or faster I wouldn't hesitate to use big conicals. But I'm a little concerned about the reports that conicals are unreliable in flesh if understabilized. The only way to stop a real charge is to break shoulder bones or hit the cns, and it's hard enough having to aim that fast without the added trouble of a slug that wants to take a U-turn and skirt around in the animal's extensive fat layers.

If PRB's will at least drill a straight 20" or so hole through tissue and pentrate or break bones, they'll do as well as anything else. What I cannot have is a bullet that may lose stability and veer off under flesh layers.

Anyway, I know this is mostly academic. I already have good trail guns, I just like the idea of taking the double for a stroll on a sunny day this summer.

 

[tg]

My only encounter with a Brown bear was 30 years ago and I was armed with a bucket of huckleberries, good physical condition and long legs got me back to the boat. I always suspected the bear stopped to eat the bucket of berries. If I were hunting with ML of any type in Brownie country I would carry a large caliber hand gun that I was very proficient with.

 

[Rancocas]

Cosmoline, I'd say that if the 50 double is what you have, take it out hunting. Don't worry about bears too much. People up here are too fixated on the idea of stopping charges. Use your head and that will help you a lot more than a larger rifle. If you do get charged, your only chance will be to brain him and bear skulls are not all that heavy. Not nearly as stout as a moose shoulder joint. I'd look into trying a few wheelweight cast balls for your .50. They are usually fairly accurate up to about 50 yards and really help penetration.

I'll second what Kyle said.
I hunt our local Tennessee black bear, wild boar, and deer with my .50 longrifle. I use a patched .490 rdball over 70 grs. of 3F. In this heavily timbered area most shots are 50 yards or less. I try for lung shots.
In my experience both black bears and wild pigs would rather run away if they can. However, they will sometimes charge if they are cornered or you surprize them at very close range.
Although I have had some close encounters, the only bear that ever charged me was a skinny spring bear just out of hibernation, and then it was my fault that it charged. I was only about 30 yards from it when I very foolishly knelt down to get a low angle photograph of it. When the bear came at me, I simply stood up, raised my arms high to make myself seem even bigger, and yelled "Hey!" The bear stopped, looked, and wandered away.
However, several years ago a woman hiker in the Great Smokie Mountain National Park was killed by a black bear. Also, two years ago, just a few miles from my home, a young bear jumped a small boy who was walking with his mother and older sister on a trail. The mother fought the bear off her son, but the frightened little girl ran off down the trail. The bear ran off the same way, caught up with, and killed the little girl.
So, shiite does happen.
Would I depend on the .50 with rdball to stop a charge? NO! But, I simply don't worry much about being charged.
And, I certainly would never use it on a brownie.

 

[sachem longrifle]

Upon reading this year's F&G manual I noticed that the old rule prohibiting PRB's in smaller than .54 cal bores has been repealed. So if I take my double rifle hunting I won't be restricted to conicals.

One of the things I've been learning reading threads on this forum is that PRB's aren't the archaic, useless objects I took them to be. And I've found they load up real nice in my rifle's bores.

Now I'm NOT planning on hunting Old Ephriam or Old Ezikiel or any other Old Testament bruins. My hunting is usually restricted to small game or at most black bear.

What I'm wondering is if the collected wise folk here think it would be plum foolish to expect a fifty cal. PRB at around 1,700 fps to stop an attack, given two barrels at my disposal. The distance involved is less than 30 yards, in fact it could be a whole lot less. I just don't know much about PRB terminal ballistics to know what kind of stopping force that would have. 1,000+ ft. lbs. is better than a .44 mag but not nearly as good as even a .30-30 in the smokeless world, but I understand different rules apply.

shot a decent sized bruin a few years ago with 50 caliber PRB. I forgot the charge but it was 30 yards or so over a bait pile. ball hit the side, the bear turned to what looked like to bite that side, ran, and i heard it die. it didnt go far. 50 caliber prb will kill a blackie if you make a good hit, as with any caliber, and keep your range close. dont know if i would use it for a brown bear :grin:

 

[laufer]

load double prb in each brl, that should do the trick on game and help with bears. practice to check the spread.

 

[Cosmoline]

Isn't there a safety issue with that?

 

[laufer]

not that i know of. i have shot two prb over 100gr pyrodex rs (ffg) in gpr, at 50 yards they've hit 2" apart.

 

[44-henry]

I don't know if it is legal in your state or not, but I would be inclined to carry a heavy caliber revolver along with the rifle if I was in your situation. A model 29 with heavy hunting loads would be a good bit of added insurance if things went bad. From the people I have talked to from that part of the world it is pretty much standard practice anyways.

 

[flintlock75]

Cosmoline,
I have been hunting in Alaska for 28 years. I have killed alot of big game. In my .54 cal rifle I use 110gr of 3F amd a 425 gr, Hornady great plains bullet, My rifle has a 1:48 Twist I have never recovered a bullet yet, all were clean through and I have never had to fire a second shot. On paper this load groups 2"-3" at 100yards. To me the proof is in the meat in my freezer. I have a .72 double smoothrifle, I load a .705 PRB and 100grs of 2F, I have killed moose,black bear and a caribou with it, "Knocked them in the dirt". While i have used PRB on deer sized game, I prefer a Conical for moose and up. since i live away from the coast I mostly hunt Moose. If you are going to hunt moose I would definatly use a conical bullet, but this depends on how well it will shoot them. Each gun is Different. My double is good to about 80 yards max.I prefer to keep shots under 50 yards. In all my years of hunting I have been lucky enough to have had only 1 brown bear encounter, a sow with 2 cubs, I was able to fire a couple of warning shots with my .44 pistol and that discouraged her from chargeing, My double was in my other hand.
I have found that bears will avoid you if they can. Keeping your eyes and ears open and use your nose and you are very unlikly to jump a bear at close range. This is also dependent on were you are hunting. Work up some loads for your .50 and see what kind of accuracy you get. Good Luck.

 

[nw_hunter]

I believe I would load a prb in one barrel and load the other with a heavy conical. I found a bag of 420 gr 50 cal Lyman shocker bullets at a local sports store, and the groups are good at 50 yds and no key holes.If I take the 50 out this elk season, this will be my load.If I was in Big bear country, I would take a buddy with a 45/70 guide gun along .Might be a plus if I could outrun him :grin: