An explaination.

[TN.Frank]

It seems that many of my words were taken out of contex or mis-understood altogether in the Mike Brooks smoothbore post. Please, allow me to try and explain myself.
First, let me say that I ment no disrespect to Mike Brooks, he makes a very nice gun and I'm sure it's well worth the money.
Second, I've never be into "Guns as Art" and as such I have no need to buy a "fancy" gun to hunt with and shoot. Too many times I've seen guys spend small foutunes on firearms that they never intend to shoot, they're simply "safe queens" and that's a dang shame, a quality firearm is something that's ment to be shot, not set in someone's safe.
Third, How much does one have to spend to get a quality muzzleloader? I think that for $700-$1K you can get a very high quality gun that is fine in both form and function. If you want to spend more then that's your choice but that extra money goes for things that do not contribute to the guns ability to function or they go to the "name" of the gun, not so much the quality.
Granted, if I wanted something with gold inlays and an extra fine finish with super high quality parts I'll have to spend extra but I'd bet that a day shooting it wouldn't yeild any better results then shooting something that cost less that's built with quality parts.
In closing let me say that I really hope that Mike and ya'll understand where I'm coming from. I could JUST afford to get into the Jackie Browns that I have, much less spend more on something tha had a higher price. I'm a practical sort of guy and as such I have to spend my money where I'll get the "most bang for the buck". Even if I had all the money in the world I still wouldn't spend it on something that I couldn't get full use out of. I really hope ya'll understand what I'm trying to say here and not take anything that I've said here for MORE or LESS than what's been said. :v

 

[Leonredbeard]

TN. Frank,
Hey, I was not offended. I thought perhaps I must have missed something.

I was too poor even to buy a Jackie Brown. So I decided to build my own gonnes. It has been quite rewarding and has given me a reason to get to know all you fine gentlemen and some ladies on this and other forums.

Now I have done some fancy carving on some of my creations. I must say there is something satisfying about some decorations, even as I understand your practicality and celebrate your preference.

I hope everyone will accept and embrace your explanation.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[Russianblood]

I think if you can't afford or admire a Mike Brooks gun you should have just stayed out of that thread. The post was about a Mike Brooks smoothbore, not a Jackie Brown. Just stick to the topic and misunderstandings won't happen (as often).

 

[renovato]

If it's any consolation, I'm in the same boat as you and Volatpluvia. I simply can't afford guns of that level. I do admire guns as art, and if I could afford them, I'd own plenty.

Knowing I will probably never be able to afford them, I go for functionality, build my own to stretch a buck, and am working on building the skills needed to make my own works of art in the future. I've built myself a few fine bolt actions. Now it's time to start building nice muzzleloaders.

 

[tom hargrove]

and the wolf pak claims another victim :cursing:

 

[TN.Frank]

On another note. If I'm hunting and I get a scratch in my J.B., well, no big deal but if I got a scratch in a $2700 buck gun, I'd have to kill my-self. :haha: That's one reason that I don't own any Browning firearms, the finish is way to shinny and the price it way too much. I'd rather have a Ruger, Remington or something that I can afford to use then something that I have to be careful with. Guns are tools, NOT Works of Art.

 

[Dave K]

Well, I like quality and fine things and I enjoy using them. Some will say it is crazy to shoot a gun made in the late 1700's but I shot them. I have no problem enjoying a vehicle that costs more than a Yugo too. It all breaks down to what is important to you. I like Brownings, but an H&R would get the job does as well, I just take pride in carrying the Browning. It makes ME feel good to carry quality, that is above what is reguired. That is me and that is why I work, as I do. We make choices, on what makes us happy. If we all had the same reguirements, there wouldn't be any need to make anything other than one gun.We could just place some plastic in the injection mold machine and make guns. I don't think there is ever a way to explain what makes you happy and what makes someone else happy.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

In the case of firearms, works of art are tools, too. All my guns, whether custom or mass produced, show honest wear. A fine muzzleloader mellows with age and each small scratch or ding represents a memory to me. Whether I spent $200.00
or $3000.00, they accompany me in the field--and I am much more likely to carry the custom guns because their balance is nicer, their locks are smoother and more reliable, and they look great in the morning light or the soft sunlight of a crisp fall day. All show and no go is a waste, whether we are speaking of guns or cars--or anything else for that matter.

 

Some fellas were content to buy a Leman or some other mass produced rifle. Then....some dug a little deeper and bought a Hawken. Some things never change.
Me? I would rather have a Brooks Buccaneer than a Pedersoli Bess.

BTW, I was at the Conner Prairie event and saw one of the new Klette rifle kit that Mike has just put out on the market. I shouldered that rifle and the balance was awesome. Real nice fit to the parts and I was impressed immediately. No standing around and scratching my head wondering if I liked it or not. It looked like a kit that even an amatuer with moderate tool handling abilities could put together and still have a real nice rifle. :winking:
No! I don't have any stock in the Brooks Corporation :rotf:
But, ya get what ya pay for. Quality costs a bit more sometimes but quality is still worth the money in the long run.
A cheap gun ain't cheap in the long run. Just something for ya'll to ruminate on.

:thumbsup:

 

I think if you can't afford or admire a Mike Brooks gun you should have just stayed out of that thread. The post was about a Mike Brooks smoothbore, not a Jackie Brown. Just stick to the topic and misunderstandings won't happen (as often).

Excellent point.

Suppose I said I bought a painting for $2,000? We don't need to hear poeople say, "WELL, I'd never spend that much for something that's going to hang on the wall". Okay, you wouldn't, but who cares? What if it were a car you couldn't or wouldn't afford? What about a pair of shoes or a shirt? We don't need to hear a list of the stuff people "wouldn't buy". That's their business, not ours.

All these statements do is give the impression that something isn't worth what it sold for. That's in the eye of the buyer - no one else.

 

[shmrck1]

Dale,
Good Point!
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[Old Charlie]

Chalk one up for the snobs!
Old Charlie

 

[TN.Frank]

I guess I'm just too "down to earth" to spend $2K on something that's going to hang on my wall. I can use that money else where to pay bills, put food on the table or gas in my truck. Just because you have the money to waste doesn't mean that you should.
I'd bet in the "real world" a quality $500 dollar flintlock will shoot every bit as well as a $3K flintlock. You just won't have the "Bragging Rights" to say that you spent $3K on your gun.
I think that the prices that Jackie Brown and Larry Williams ask for their guns are fair prices. I don't think a person needs to spend more to get a quality, handbuilt flintlock unless you just have the extra cash lying around. I don't so I won't. If you do then more power to ya' but just think, for $2700 you could have had 3 Jackie Brown built guns.
:hmm:

 

[Leonredbeard]

T.N.
I have put scratches on my fancy creations and just consider it part of the history of the gonne. My works of art get to work, hee hee!
volatpluvia

 

[roundball]

I guess I'm just too "down to earth" to spend $2K on something that's going to hang on my wall. I can use that money else where to pay bills, put food on the table or gas in my truck. Just because you have the money to waste doesn't mean that you should.
I'd bet in the "real world" a quality $500 dollar flintlock will shoot every bit as well as a $3K flintlock. You just won't have the "Bragging Rights" to say that you spent $3K on your gun.
I think that the prices that Jackie Brown and Larry Williams ask for their guns are fair prices. I don't think a person needs to spend more to get a quality, handbuilt flintlock unless you just have the extra cash lying around. I don't so I won't. If you do then more power to ya' but just think, for $2700 you could have had 3 Jackie Brown built guns.
:hmm:

Just an observation...you started this separate thread ostensibly as an apology for previous comments in the other thread...the more you talk the less it sounds like your intended goal.

Sometime less is more...

 

[Boomer]

I think if you can't afford or admire a Mike Brooks gun you should have just stayed out of that thread. The post was about a Mike Brooks smoothbore, not a Jackie Brown. Just stick to the topic and misunderstandings won't happen (as often).

Amen brother!

Two Bellies, I agree with you re: Wolf Pack but IMO in this case it was more than justified. To hijack a thread intended to praise one mans work by suggesting it is less than worthwhile while simulatniously trumpeting another is just poor taste!

Frank, your last post shows that you are recalcitrant.
Go dance nude under the light of a full moon swinging your JB... You'll feel better :rotf:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Mr. Frank, I have an H&R 12ga with 32" full choke barrel for which I've built a full length forestock, with ramrod and reshaped the butt to a straight grip, long wrist, fluted comb with crescent recoil pad. It smokes clays on the trap field, shoots slugs like a rifle, will pulverize a turkey's head at 50 yards, takes 3" magnums, is rated for steel shot and weighs just six pounds and I can switch loads from one ounce of 6's to slug or buck or steel, silently and in seconds.
I put it to you sir that there is nothing your Jackie Brown smoothbore can do that my H&R can't do very much better and with far less bother and expense. You know perfectly well sir that you paid $700 for a gun that is in every way inferior to my seventy dollar gun. That is just a tasteless display of wealth and extravagance and you should hang your head in shame sir, in shame.
Fortunately there is a way out. As I feel your pain and am a generous and compassionate new age guy I will trade you my good H&R for your embarrassingly extravagant Jackie Brown. Straight across, even swap, you just pay the shipping on both guns. I can't make it any easier for you than that. :grin:

 

[TN.Frank]

And that is exsactly my point. Good enough is generally good enough. I"m sure there's a lot of $300 dollar Traditions in the field taking deer each and every year. Does that mean that a $1K or more expensive gun is "better", not for the guy that can only afford the $300 Traditions is doesn't.
As for "Hi-Jacking" a thread, HOG WASH. The guy posted a link to a gun(I suppose with the intentions of getting our opinions) and I expressed my opinion on the matter, plain and simple. Not saying that the Mike Brooks gun isn't nice, just saying that for less money he could get a gun that'd be just as functional, that's all. It still is a Free Country and I am still able to express an opinion, aren't I?

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Of course you can express your opinion. You might have just said "that sure is a nice gun, too bad it's out of my price range". :grin:

 

[Mike Brooks]

TN.Frank]I guess I'm just too "down to earth" to spend $2K on something that's going to hang on my wall. I can use that money else where to pay bills, put food on the table or gas in my truck. Just because you have the money to waste doesn't mean that you should.
I'd bet in the "real world" a quality $500 dollar flintlock will shoot every bit as well as a $3K flintlock. You just won't have the "Bragging Rights" to say that you spent $3K on your gun.
I think that the prices that Jackie Brown and Larry Williams ask for their guns are fair prices. I don't think a person needs to spend more to get a quality, handbuilt flintlock unless you just have the extra cash lying around. I don't so I won't. If you do then more power to ya' but just think, for $2700 you could have had 3 Jackie Brown built guns.[/b]
:hmm:

Ok Frank, at this point my hackle feathers are starting to rise. :cursing: I've listened to you go on about this for several days and I've heard enough about how over priced my guns are. So far you've made it obvious that you're jealous as hell over the fact that some folks can buy quality made guns and you can't.

Just because you have the money to waste doesn't mean that you should.

That is just about the stupidest thing I've read on this board. I sold this gun almost ten years ago for $1700. It just sold again for more than $1000 more than that. Not a bad investment for the original buyer, and the current owner will sell it and make a handsome profit if he hangs on to it for 5 to 10 years. Money is not "wasted" on high end guns. Do you think your slapped together slab sided chunky cheap guns will ever be worthy more than you paid?

but just think, for $2700 you could have had 3 Jackie Brown built guns.

Then you'd have wasted 42700 on three guns that will never increase in value. :shake:

I'd bet in the "real world" a quality $500 dollar flintlock will shoot every bit as well as a $3K flintlock.

Generally not in my experience. A $500 piece of manure will handle like a $500 piece of manure. You have to work hard all of the time just to get them to go off consistantly, where as a custom made gun in the $3000 price range will funtion flawlessly.

You just won't have the "Bragging Rights" to say that you spent $3K on your gun.

That's a bunch of bull. No one I've ever built a gun for has ever bragged about how much they paid for their gun.

I think that the prices that Jackie Brown and Larry Williams ask for their guns are fair prices.

I have a theory about building guns. I prefer making 15 to 20 high quality guns per year than 50 to 70 or more pieces of low quality slapped together low quality junk. In the end the quality maker makes the same money at the end of the year as the guys that are making the cheap stuff.
I'd rather have people say about me and my work " he sure makes a fine gun" instead of "he sure makes a piece of manure.....but the price is right"

I don't think a person needs to spend more to get a quality, handbuilt flintlock unless you just have the extra cash lying around.

You need to spend more time looking at custom made guns. Lay a $3000 gun from a well known builder next to your Jacki Brown gun and compare the two. It should become immediatly obvious which gun is the "quality " product and which one isn't. If you can't tell the difference then you're beyond hope....which I suspect is the case.



DAMIT!!!!! Why doesn't the quote thingy work when I have a post like this? :cursing: