any truth to breaking in a barrel ??

[ericrutters]

ive recently acquired this hobby of black powder shooting and a traditions deerhunter 50 with a 24" barrel 1:48 twist i shoot .495 prb with 80 grns of 333fg geox and from the bench @ 50 yds im all over the place ive shot modern guns since i could carry one 20 yrs or so i load the same every time but im not getting any grouping could this be due to the gun being new less than 50 shots ive included some pics of shot patches im not getting any torn or shredded patches so i know thats not the problem

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[sdhunter]

i am faily new to this too. when i bought my .54 gpr last summer it was cutting patches but still shot "okay" groups. After about 100 rounds it stopped cutting patches and slowly turned into a tack driver. I have heard that 1:48 twist barrels shoot roundballs better with smaller powder charges so maybe try to let down on the charge a little and try a tighter patch. Maybe a combination of the two might help.

 

[William O.]

Yes, it is possible that your bore has a few sharp edges that are affecting accuracy. There are many way to polish the bore from using steel wool to things like JB's bore paste, which works well for me. I would reduce your charge to begin with, to around 55 grains and work up a load from there. At this point you don't want to be adjusting your sights either, just aim at the same point of the target, shoot three to five times, increase by 5 grains until your groups get nice and tight. It is also possible that the patches you are using are old and have begun to come apart, affecting accuracy, if using store bought. One other tip for a beginner, always use some kind of lube on your patches, never dry as they will get your jag, ramrod and anything attached to them stuck in the barrel.

 

[necchi]

Yeah 80grns of 3F is a little hot for a 50.
I'd start at 50 grns and fire 5 shot groups, increasing the powder charge 5 grns with each set.

And Yes, barrels do break in to shooting better with time. 150-200 shots and you should be where it's gonna be.

The shot's to the right side indicate too me, a "Pull" in the shooting technique.
(trigger technique)

 

[ohio ramrod]

Your patches don't seem cut, so the problem probably isn't with the gun. I suggest you try getting Dutch Schultz's guide to better shooting. It will save any one , not just beginners a lot of time trying to improve their shooting. :idunno:

 

[ericrutters]

im using cva patch grease on my patches i think next time im going to try the reduced charge working up from 50 or so grains and im going to switch patches to ones ive cut ive made a few hundred and have lots more of the same material 100% cotton bed sheet so ill have consistency for the long run and ill admit i may still be flinching a little but im shooting from a gun vice ive narrowed my front sight a little it was taking up alot of target at 50 yds i did do some sight adjustment every 5 shots or so id try to get it a little closer i run a spit patch between shots followed by dry patch loading resistance is the same everytime im leaning towards reducing the charge i just dont think its all me im fairly certian ive got my windage pretty close i guess ill just keep on pluggin till i figure out what the gun likes its nice to have the experience of others to draw from many thanks

 

[ChrisHarris]

I would do this:

25yds
Heavy bench sled or plenty of sand bags to get a good solid rest.
40 grains of 3F
Run a 'damp' patch down the barrel after every shot. Then a dry patch. Then load it and fire it.

See if it will group. Aim at the same spot every time. I usually aim dead center. If you can get a nice 5 shot group ANYWHERE on the paper, go up to 45 grains of 3F and change targets. See if the groups change.

Let's assume it's grouping. Shoot 5 times. Swab between each shot. Change the target out. Go up 5 grains in powder charge.

At some point, the groups are going to go from big groups too smaller groups and then as you increase the powder charge too much - they will open up again. Too much powder - balls are spinning too fast - opens up the groups.

Back it down to the powder charge where it groups the tightest. Once you find the best powder charge, you can work on adjusting the sights.

You gotta find the sweet spot, and it takes hours, even days, of slow and methodical work.

AFTER you get it sighted and adjusted at 25yds with the best powder load and patches.....

Move out to 50yds and keep that same powder charge that gave you the best groups. Aim in the same spot. Don't try and compensate for yardage yet. Just see where it shoots and see how it holds the groups at that distance. Don't adjust the sights. Just get it shooting good groups at 50yds.

Move out to 75yds and do it again. Hold in the same spot and see where the balls hit the target. You want to see how much it's going to drop wioth each increase in distance.

Then move out to 100yds.

All the guys I talked too swear that 50grains in a .50 caliber WILL pass through a deer and kill it dead. They say you don't need heavy powder loads to go all the way through a deer. So don't convince yourself that you need to shoot 80grs or 100 grs. Shoot what gives the best groups. Learn the drop at each distance. Learn your gun. I'm in the process of doing exactly that with my new barrel and gun.

You have to be anal and methodical. I'm SICK with how methodical I get when bench shooting my rifle. Do it the same exact way every single time. How hard do you push on the ball to seat it? Do you seat it the same way every time? Do you run a soaking wet patch down after every shot or just a damp patch? Do you dry with 1 patch or 2? Be anal. Be methodical. Hold it straight every time. Don't lean the gun from side to side. Hold it straight up so it's not canted off to one side. Be Zen with your gun. Be the gun. See the balls hit the target. Think in your mind where the ball is going to land. WILL the ball to land where you aim.

I know. I'm nuts. :youcrazy:

Just do it the same way every time. There is no right way or wrong way. Choose your own path. Just walk that path the same way every time.

 

[ericrutters]

thanks for the info chris sounds to me like maybe im over charging the gun ill try starting at 25yds with 50 grns and see what happens from there im only shooting 80 grns because the guy i bought my flinter from told me thats what he shot out of it but im not so sure he ever really worked the gun so much as just shot it a few times ivegot the gun firing reliably using flint from RMC-ox-yoke ive opene my vent to 1/16 and im using lead to hold my flint huge difference in the way the gun feels after you pull the trigger using the lead now to work on my form and accuracy hope to be proficient enough to feel confident in taking a deer by the fall with my flinter here in pa

 

[Rat Trapper]

Yeah 80grns of 3F is a little hot for a 50.

:bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull:

 

[necchi]

:haha:
Your right Rat Trap, but in this case it's NOT the accuracy load for ericrutters and his loading technique.
I'd bet that if Eric follows ChrisHarris` great explaination for load development he'll find that accuracy node much lower than what he's currently useing.

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

have lots more of the same material 100% cotton bed sheet

?Bed sheets are not usually what we use, BUT, looking at your patches; I would expect bed sheets to be shredded, yours aren't.
We usually what would be close to canvas, the mattress "ticking" (covering). 100% cotton is good.
A change in patch material an surprise you with a change from 8 inch groups to 2 inch groups.

 

[ebiggs1]

I have two new GPR's, one flint the other percussion. One shot well, the flint, right out of the box. The other needed several trips out in the backyard and finally it shoots as well. No one can tell you, it has to be done a certain way, it doesn't. You just have to shoot it and learn it's wants and needs.
Rat Trapper is also correct 80 grs is NOT an excessive load. It may be a bit high for a starter load but not out of reason. My goto load is usually 70 grs as most rifles (50 cal) seem to like it. (a little more, a little less) :thumbsup:

Drop the swabbing routine! :wink:

 

[Rifleman1776]

When I started this ml craziness I was taught to lap all new barrels. We would cast a lead slug onto the end of steel rod, mount the other end to the hub of a bicycle wheel, use lapping compound and lap with compound. We would count the number of strokes, do more near the breech end, howl at the moon and watch Venus get in aligment with Saturn during solstice. :wink:
In reality, just shooting 100 to 200 rounds will lap in a new barrel very nicely. And it is more fun than aforesaid ritual.

 

[aeatwood]

Good old spit patches work for target shooting, and are usually one of the better options just to see if you can get the rifle to group. Just hold the next patch in your mouth while you load the current one. They don't need to be dripping, but they do need to be wet.

If you go from 50 gr. or so of 3f up to 80-90, and are still not happy, try some 2f. It operates at a bit lower pressure, and can be kinder to the patches.

Once you get the powder charge sorted, try playing with slightly heavier patching material. Any 100% cotton denim, pillow ticking, matress ticking, or "duck" can be used, depending on your gun's preference. You want to try stuff from roughly .015" to .025" in thickness. Once you get the patching sorted out, then jiggle the powder charge a little up and down to see if the sweet spot moved.

Then play with patch lubes. when you find something your gun seems to like, then play with the powder charge again. With a good polished barrel, and a smooth crown, you should be able to find a lube and patch combo that will be fairly easy to ram, but will allow you to shoot all day w/o wiping the bore.

Alan

 

[ChrisHarris]

Spit patches work great!!

I'd pick a good patch material and stick to it while you are learning the gun.

WallMart sells pillow ticking in the fabric section. They will cut any size piece you want. It usually comes in 32" wide bolts. I bought a 32" x 36" piece for about $6. Thats plenty for starting out.

You can order ox-yoke pillow ticking online at most of the muzzleloading shops. I believe one of our site sponsors - The Possible Shop - sells it. http://www.possibleshop.com/s-s-patch.html

Somebody said to drop the swabbing routine that I suggested. I disagree. When sighting in a new gun, you want each shot to run out the barrel in the same condition as the last shot. Again, be methodical. Do it the same way every time.

If you swab when ever you feel like it, you're going to get a random sampling of balls going down range. Random swabbing of the barrel = random target holes.

Swab after 5 shots? Maybe swab after every 3rd shot?

Just pick SOME manner and repeat it like a religion. Doesn't matter how you do it. Just do it over and over and over and over. You WILL see a pattern develop in your shots.

Sorry to be so long winded. I get carried away. :yakyak: :yakyak:

 

[nkbj]

Each barrel is a different barrel.
I recently broke in a 58 that's a rebore and had reaming marks perpendicular to the length of the barrel. Has cut rifling so there were sharp edges on the edges of the lands as well.
To remove the reamer ridges and sharp edges I dissolved a crawdad mound in water and used that for patch lube. Slicked her right up in no time.

 

[ohio ramrod]

While I have lapped many neglected barrels . I would never try lapping coumpound in a new rifle. A little toothpaste , scouring powder (non chlorine ) or even buffing coumpound on a bore brush will remove any burrs quickly. Lapping and grinding coumpounds are for restoring, not for "breaking in". I did note you mentioned "when I first started ". It is interesting how many things we hear from the "experts" prove to be not so great with time and actual experience. :idunno: :idunno:

 

[Darkgael]

It seems that barrel break in is a topic for lengthy discussion any time it shows up. Here is my .02...
I have a GPR .50 Cal. flintlock. I have two barrels for it.....an older one that came with the gun (bought used) and which has some pitting, and a new one from Lyman. Rifling twist rate is 1-66".
They both shoot very nicely. Same load for both: 90 grains of FFg, 0.010" patch, .490" LRB. I swab the bore with a patch saturated with pure (not rubbing) alcohol after every shot.
Initially, my thought was that 80 grains of 3F was OK. It may be so but I wonder a bit now about that load and a round ball and that 1-48" twist and light patch material.
Pete

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have noted that the type of rifling (round bottom vs. square) may have some differences when getting a load worked up. I have had to lap two barrels that were square rifled to take some of the sharp bits out..., they worked great after that.

I am also learning that with the smaller calibers (I am working on a new .40 right now) that smaller changes in variables tend to make bigger changes down range. So it's taking me lots longer to get a good, accurate load worked up with this caliber than with my .54's. So I'd suggest that with a .40 and smaller, the "break-in" might be more important and take longer as little things to those calibers appear to "mean a lot".

LD

 

[matt denison]

"Initially, my thought was that 80 grains of 3F was OK. It may be so but I wonder a bit now about that load and a round ball and that 1-48" twist and light patch material."

That is what I was thinking too. Looking at his target I think there is something inherently wrong with his load. My first instinct says too much powder for those thin patches and 1:48 twist. I'm willing to bet that backing off the powder and a thicker patch will tighten things up nicely. Then fine tune.