any truth to breaking in a barrel ??

[ebiggs1]

It is interesting how many things we hear from the "experts" prove to be not so great with time and actual experience.

Ain't that a fact? :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

In many cases, an expert is only as good as what the expert has read in other posts from other experts on other forums.


T/C's load data for a .50cal PRB load runs from 50-110grns, and we all know that surely has major liability margins built into it...so 90grns is definitely not too hot and in fact is the powder charge I've used for about 20 years now in T/C and GM .45/.50/.54cal barrels as follows:
T/C 28" x 1:48"
T/C 32" x 1:66"
GM 42" x 1:66"

I use .010" under bore size balls (.490") and T/C's .018" precut/prelubed pillow ticking.
In fact using 90grns Goex 3F as hunting loads in all my T/C .45/.50/.54 calibers, they all printed 100yd bench groups of 1+7/8" - 2+3/4".

To answer the original question, I've only had one instance where a GM .58cal barrel shot better after a couple hundred balls, but it was because the ends of the lands were so sharp they were cutting the patches at short start time...once they smoothed out from all the short starting the patches were fine and accuracy was outstanding.
All other T/C, GM, and Rice barrels have been excellent right out of the box.

 

[Rifleman1776]

While I have lapped many neglected barrels . I would never try lapping coumpound in a new rifle. A little toothpaste , scouring powder (non chlorine ) or even buffing coumpound on a bore brush will remove any burrs quickly. Lapping and grinding coumpounds are for restoring, not for "breaking in". I did note you mentioned "when I first started ". It is interesting how many things we hear from the "experts" prove to be not so great with time and actual experience. :idunno: :idunno:

Quite right. Many custom barrel makers do lap their barrels before delivering to a customer. Those I knew sold mostly to bench and slug shooters. Their barrels were very smooth from git-go. What they lapped with I don't know. The lapping we did with compound did not seem to hurt anything. But, I finally decided it did no more good than shooting a new gun a few hundred rounds. And, as I said, shooting is a lot more fun than lapping. Unless you like howling at the moon.

 

[ericrutters]

ive removed the cheap plastic sight and replaced my front sight with a hooded metal rifle sight i used a brass dovetail made from an old door hinge and tapped it for a screw then screwed the new sight into the dovetail not pc/hc but its not a show piece its a plastic stock traditions would love to get a fully adjustable rear sight that works with the little thumb wheels or a lyman peep but the price is $$$ time to do some shooting !!

from this

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to this

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[ericrutters]

not my intentions to modernize but more a reliability issue that plastic sight was easy to move and made of plastic i dont think the metal rifle sight is to much of a modernizaton

 

[Birddog6]

First thing I would do is ditch those targets. Too much distraction on it.

!: Shoot at the Smallest Black dot on white paper that can see @ 25 yards. Butcher paper works well, black marker.

2: Start with 50 grains of 3F. Hold dead center on the bull each time. Shoot 3 shots. If you are hitting the bull, move the front sight over & get off the bull, hitting it changes the sight picture. 3 shots, change targets.

3: Go to 55 grains. 3 shots, change targets.

4: Go to 60 grains, repeat.

5: Go to 65 grains, Repeat.

6: Go to 70 grains, repeat.

If ONE of those groups won't group 1" at 25 yards, change ball size to a smaller ball & much thicker patch. If shooting a .495, try a thicker patch. Repeat all the above.

If that doesn't work, try all the above with a dif. patch grease & material.

To me, your patch material would be way too thin. In a 1-48 twist I want the ball/patch combo to be really Tight & start real hard with a short starter. Others don't like them tight, but I do & have had best groups with tight combos. Mic the material & start with .015 patching.

If that don't improve anything, get someone else to try shooting it. It may be you are the problem.

After you do get a group, then you start trying dif patches & lube & etc.

Anyone can shoot a modern or a percussion rifle. Not the same with a Flintlock. :shake: You have to get your mind past the ignition source & concentrate on the target, not the flash, ignition, recoil, etc.

Several years back I built a rifle for guy & he came back 3 times with group issues. All 3 times the rifle shot 1 hole groups a 25 yards & 2" groups @ 50 yards for me. With him shooting it, he shot a 6" group at 25 yards & 12"+ group at 50 yards. He had undoubtedly the absolute worst flinch & trigger yank (no it was not a pull, it was a yank !) I have ever seen.
Each time he would leave I would have him calmed down to about 4" @ 50 yards, but a month later he was back to the same thing. Last time he was here he wanted me to move the sights to compensate for the yank. :bull:

Keith Lisle

PS: Take a piece of index card & round it & tape it over the rear sight just like that front sight looks, til ya get it grouping..

 

[Rifleman1776]

A top shooter I once knew kept a notebook. He logged every shot he took.

EVERY

shot, even during competition. He noted weather, time of day, wind, plus all details about his shooting components and, of course, where that last shot placed.
He was a serious X (Buffalo match) competitor. Those matches were not won with 50s or even 50s and a few Xs, or even 50-5X. But by the 50-5x with the smallest group. He musta been doing something right.
The keeping notes idea is a good one. You will see patterns and learn a lot.
BTW, that was my favorite match when I shot at Friendship. I never placed but did take home 50 patches. Oh, well.

 

[Birddog6]

Oh yes........... you have to be diligent on recording on EVERY target. If not, you will be repeating useless loads & may never get things going your way.

And I save the targets of the best loads, then work off that data.

ANY CHANGE can & most likely will change a group. Change the Ball dia, Patch, Lube, How Much Lube, Powder brand, Charge volume, How you pack the powder, Dif. Lots of same brand powder, swabbing material, swabbing lube & even how many strokes you swab the bore can make a dif.

Some rifles are very finicky,some are a breeze to find the correct load.

Keith Lisle

 

[FRJ]

I didn;t read this whole thing, I kinda stopped when you said you were using bed sheet for patches. You need to use something quite a lot thicker than bed sheet for patches!!!!!! Quite a few of us use pillow ticking that is 100% cotton and aprox .018" thick. Do not use anything with any synthetics in it.It can be bought by the yard at fabric stores or precut and lubed at anyplace that sells M/L supplies. FRJ

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Yeah 80grns of 3F is a little hot for a 50.
:bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull:

Jee and to think that i use 110gr 3f in my 50

 

[necchi]

Yes KW, but if you look further perhaps you'd find another post to quote.

You have taken the time to find the other variables considered in an accurate load.
The OP in this case hasn't, he has jumped immediatly to a heavy charge with the persumption thatthe previous owner actually had accuracy.

In other consideration I have no idea why you need 110grns of 3F,
I guess it's a cool thing, huh?
I know a guy that shoots 55grn of 3F in a 50 and harvests deer every year with it
I guess your deer must be dead`er than his.

Beleive me, I'm fully aware of heavy loads in ML rifles, and all the heavy bullets and other "magnumitis" symptoms,,
I had the same trials in my infancy too.

 

[Otter]

I didn;t read this whole thing, I kinda stopped when you said you were using bed sheet for patches. You need to use something quite a lot thicker than bed sheet for patches!!!!!! Quite a few of us use pillow ticking that is 100% cotton and aprox .018" thick. Do not use anything with any synthetics in it. It can be bought by the yard at fabric stores or precut and lubed at anyplace that sells M/L supplies. FRJ

Quite a few of us DO use bedsheets for patching. There are only a couple of my MLs that will even let me use pillow ticking without using a hammer to get the ball down the bore. Everybody needs to find what works for them in their muzzleloaders. You do have to be a bit particular about WHAT bedsheets to use, though. 100% cotton for sure, loose weave muslin doesn't work well, for me anyhow. I use 300 tpi Egyptian Cotton (400 tpi is even better) and have not had blown or cut patches, they mic at .016" thick and I use spit or Moose Milk for lube. YMMV

 

[hanshi]

It normally doesn't take more than 100 to 200 shots for any barrel to settle down and smooth out so no problem there. As for a heavy charge, I've used 100 grains of 3F in 4 different .50s with fine accuracy, fine performance and many dead deer. I go lighter now but only because I'm tight with my powder.

 

[nkbj]

Sometimes thin is in. Got a .696" bore Fremont with .004" deep three groove rifling. Thin patch around a .683" ball over a fiber wad soaked in melted lube is what works.