Anyone experience this with Graff's or Schuetzen powder ??

[Hunter John]

Mac - Yeah, I've read some good things about the Hoppes 9 Black Powder Solvent and Patch lube. Must pick some up next time I order from Midsouth Shooting Supplies and try that as a damp swab solution.

Gonna try swabbing with my own Moose Milk recipe next time out...12-1-1. 12 parts distilled h2o, 1 part murphy's oil soap, and 1 part ballistol. This is the same recipe I use when soaking ticking strips, glently squeeze out access solution, and then letting dry overnight. Works well.

Heck, I've been shooting BP off 'n on for 25 years and I'm still learning. To many guns, to many components, and not 'nuff range time. :td:

Note to self: Don't use damp alcohol patch swab when using Grafs or Schuetzen. Ok, got it. :grin:

 

[Jim C]

Sounds like the Grafs/Schuetzen powder is having a bad reaction to the alcohol which is causing the fouling to harden. I too use Dutch's Ballistol/water dry patch system. It being what it is(a dry patch lube)it definitely requires swabbing the bore between shots. I use only water, spit, or a 10:1 Water/Ballistol solution. I also discovered this once I started swabbing between shots. To start with I was using a tight fitting cleaning jag equivalent to the caliber of rifle I was shooting. After about ten shots I started getting hangfires, after 15 shots complete failure to fire.....unless I popped a cap each time after swabbing to clear the fire channel. At 10 cents per cap that can get expensive. This is what I finally discovered was happening. That tight fitting jag was forcing fouling down the bore in front of it and slowly stopping up the breech and fire channel. I started using a jag the next caliber smaller, ie a .45 cal jag in a .50/.36 cal in .40 etc. This way it doesn't fit tight enough to push the fouling ahead of it, but rather glides over it dampening and softening it, but when you pull it back up it will bunch up the tail of the excess patch material behind the jag and pull that fouling out of the bore instead of pushing it into the breech and fire channel in front of it on the down stroke. Using this method I can now fire the same rifle 50 times and never have a hang fire or FTF. Don't even have to pick the nipple anymore either. So, drop the alcohol, use an under size jag for wiping between shots with water spit or anything as long as it is not alcohol or petroleum based because I can almost guarantee you that's whats causing your fouling to harden, and the tight fitting cleaning jag is what is causing the hang fires and FTF. Hope this helps.

 

[necchi]

Good point mtmanjim,
But couldn't the same thing be accomplished by changing/adjusting the thickness of the swab patch?
That's why I went with the store bought 22cal cleaning patch, it's much thinner then my typical cleaning and/or shooting patch and just the right size to work with my cal specific jags.
I could probably find fabric the same as 22cal patches and cut it, but the store bought are just convenient.

 

[shguns]

I have been shooting Swiss 2Fg in my muzzleloader, but bought some Old E and Schuetzen to try as well.
I use mink oil lube from Track on my patches. I have also noticed that when I use the Schuetzen powder the fouling is harder or crusty compared to Swiss.
It also seems to be deposited much closer to the muzzle. I'm still working on a plan of what to do when using this powder. When its gone I think I'll just buy more Swiss, as I like it and I can shoot 10 shots and the tenth loads almost as easy as the first without any wiping at all.

 

[rodwha]

Have you tried the Olde E yet? I've read claims of it fouling less than Swiss, but as skeptical.

 

[Jim C]

Good point mtmanjim,
But couldn't the same thing be accomplished by changing/adjusting the thickness of the swab patch?
That's why I went with the store bought 22cal cleaning patch, it's much thinner then my typical cleaning and/or shooting patch and just the right size to work with my cal specific jags.
I could probably find fabric the same as 22cal patches and cut it, but the store bought are just convenient.

Absolutely necchi. That is definitely another good option/method to combat the problem. I see that you had already ran across the problem, probably long before I did and figured it out. Wish I had mentioned it here on the forum now, because it took me several different trips to the range and a good long month of pondering the situation before it finally dawned on me just exactly what it was that was causing that annoying problem. Once it did come to me I had to do a face plant because it really should have been, after looking back on it, readily apparent, or just too obvious, you'd think anyway. The reason why I settled on the method I explained above is because I was at the range when the brain fart finally popped on me that the method/tool I was using to swab between shots with was what was actually causing the problem. I was shooting my .40 cal that day and I already had a .36 cal jag in my range box that I had used with a piece of Scotch Bright pad to "smooth" up my 40 cal bore with, that being another subject/story altogether, but it certainly is what connected the dots for me. I've always preferred to swab between shots and clean with cotton flannel because it is so much more absorbent and imo does the best job for the task at hand. Another plus to it is that I already have about two thousand of them, and cotton flannel won't unravel and fray like other materials when washed so I save my patches and wash them which lets me use them two, maybe three times over before tossing them.

 

[Hunter John]

Mtmanjim - "So, drop the alcohol, use an under size jag for wiping between shots with water spit or anything as long as it is not alcohol or petroleum based because I can almost guarantee you that's whats causing your fouling to harden, and the tight fitting cleaning jag is what is causing the hang fires and FTF. Hope this helps."

Yes, that certainly helps. Lots of great advice here. Never using alcohol again as a swabbing solution. Never.

Bought some thin muslin at Joanne's for around a $1 per yard. Gonna try cutting a few squares and using to swab between shots as opposed to the cotton shirt squares I normally use.

When you use a 45 cal jag in a 50 cal bore, do you cut the squares a little larger to ensure they bunch up when you pull them out? Have you ever lost a patch when using the undersized jag?

Thanks again.

 

[Hunter John]

Rodwa - I used OE this past weekend and to be honest, I found it mabye just a wee bit cleaner than regular Goex. However, the fouling was definitely blacker and more workable (more moist?) than the Grafs. Although the moist OE fouling may have been attributable to the 10-1-1 Moose Milk I was using to swab.

 

[shguns]

I have tried shooting the Old Eynsford powder. It seems to have less fouling than the Schuetzen but more than Swiss in my rifle. It may actually be that it is harder fouling not more fouling, but it seems noticeable to me. More testing is required! :grin:

 

[Jim C]

Mtmanjim - "So, drop the alcohol, use an under size jag for wiping between shots with water spit or anything as long as it is not alcohol or petroleum based because I can almost guarantee you that's whats causing your fouling to harden, and the tight fitting cleaning jag is what is causing the hang fires and FTF. Hope this helps."

Yes, that certainly helps. Lots of great advice here. Never using alcohol again as a swabbing solution. Never.

Bought some thin muslin at Joanne's for around a $1 per yard. Gonna try cutting a few squares and using to swab between shots as opposed to the cotton shirt squares I normally use.

When you use a 45 cal jag in a 50 cal bore, do you cut the squares a little larger to ensure they bunch up when you pull them out? Have you ever lost a patch when using the undersized jag?

Thanks again.

If you use a 45 jag in a 50 don't use thin patch material or you'll possibly lose it. I use 2 1/2 inch square cotton flannel patches for swabbing between shots and cleaning in my 50's. I've never lost one yet, but I still keep a stuck patch remover in my range box/hunting pouch. The good thing about cotton flannel is that you can wash it and use it multiple times, it wont fray and unravel like other materials. I don't think a thinner patch on a 50 jag will prevent it from pushing crud down the bore in front of it, but you can try it. If it starts to hang fire or fail to fire after a few shots you'll know it's not working. Good luck to you HJ and make good smoke.