Are movie prop revolvers fully functional reproductions?

[josie wales]

There is no limit to stupidity in the fake Hollywood industry. Firearms should be double
checked for status and safety. Baldwin is totally on the hook. Since he is a known
anti-American activist, I pray for the victims, but shed no tears for Baldwin.

I would pee in his face if his hair was on fire.

 

[tenngun]

, I’m nicer then you, I’d pee in his face any old day

 

[josie wales]

We all know there are four redundant rules that will keep you safe. I'm not going to repeat them. But, on a film set, they often violate at least the first two on a routine bases when filming scenes. That's why it's so darn vital that a prop master be on hand to double and triple check that the gun is unloaded at all times. That the gun never get's passed from person to person without being repeatedly checked. AND THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY ZERO LIVE AMMO ANYWHERE ON SET EVER! And, if the gun is ever to be used with blanks, that the barrel is visually inspected to confirm there are no obstructions at all that could turn into deadly projectiles when the blanks are fired.

Also, if dummy rounds with bullets are used in a revolver so it looks read from the front, they have to be real dummy rounds, not just dummy rounds made by removing the powder, leaving the live primers on and jamming the bullets loosely back into the cartridge. Like what happened with Brandon Lee when he was killed.

Further, no gun loaded or unloaded gun should ever be pointed at an actor or the camera/cameraperson unless the scene specifically calls for it. Even then there are clear bulletproof Lexan sheets that can be used for extra safety. When shooting such scenes an armorer should be there to immediately check and confirm the gun is unloaded prior to the shot, then immediately take possession of the weapon from the actor as soon as they call "cut!" And, when the actor first takes possession of the unloaded or blank loaded weapon, they should know how to confirm the condition of the gun rather than simply taking the armorer's word for it.

It sounds like they got lazy and assumed someone else had confirmed the gun empty because that was there job. At then the gun was left lying on a cart where who knows who loaded it with live ammo for who knows what reason. Again, live ammo should never be anywhere near a set.

Here is a great interview with Dean Cain explaining safety protocols on the set when firearms are involved.

Damn, regardless of your politics and/or love for Mr. Baldwin, a young wife and mother lost her life and another person was wounded. As firearms enthusiasts and compassionate human beings we owe it to those involved to try use this terrible tragedy to spark a wider conversation about gun safety. Guns don't kill people, but if you don't treat them with respect a careless individual very well may.

I use to help my Dad teach gun safety classes. He was a Natural Resource Officer (Game Warden) all his life. We used "dummy" rounds all the time. They are nothing like a live round. They are all marked DUMMY from the factory and a real odd ball color No way confused with a live round. Oh by the way the very first rule of gun safety is "TREAT EVERY GUN WITH THE DUE RESPECT OF A LOADED GUN".

 

[josie wales]

, I’m nicer then you, I’d pee in his face any old day

No because I started his hair on fire!

 

[Ponderosaman]

On NPR this morning they had a story about this where they interviewed a guy that would be in charge of guns in movies. He called that person a handler. He said the industry standard is for only two people to ever handle a functional firearm. The handler and the actor. Both people are to verify the firearm is not loaded and to follow all firearm safety rules at all times. Based on these standards, Baldwin holds half the culpability for this death. I’d like to link the article, but can’t find it.

 

[Tenring]

MOST of use who handle BP Firearms + all firearms in general have lived somewhat ordinary / Ruff or hard lives weather work or play and we are the Real Fu#$%&ig Deal and a guy and I use that term loosely like Baldwin is just a Hollywood sissy candy ass that really has no business directing nor handling ANY sort of Firearm if you Don’t know what the hell your doing. AM I RIGHT…This is what’s wrong with this world to much favoritism and special privilege for the $$$ we would not get that.

 

[Baggy270]

If it was a semi-auto with an empty magazine, and no one (ie: Baldwin himself) cleared the chamber-then BOOM, an instant tragedy! The very LAST person handling the gun is ultimately responsible.

Not too many semi autos in the old west….

 

[Baggy270]

You are being very generous! Baldwin is a douche that smells his own farts.

Doesn’t everyone?

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

2 questions I have: ( someone may have asked & I may have missed them....)

1. Why is there live ammo on a movie set anyway?

2. The camera girl & another behind the scenes person was hit.
Why on earth Is Baldwin shooting the prop gun at them & not at another actor in front of a camera?

I bet this story gets swept under the nearest bear rug in New Mexico.

 

[Ian Straus]

Baldwin will escape conviction for murder because he did not have intent to kill. Not because he is a star.
Intent is required for any criminal conviction, and I have no doubt he would hire a competent lawyer who will point that out..

But I agree that he will not escape liability in a wrongful death suit. $$$. He almost certainly has liability insurance, and i expect the insurance company will do a financial settlement with the family. I doubt whether he will be able to get another liability policy after this, though it's not the first fatality in the history of film.

 

[Tenring]

Maybe Flow from Progressive Insurance will offer him a home, auto and Wrongful Death policy at cut rate….

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Baldwin will escape conviction for murder because he did not have intent to kill. Not because he is a star.
Intent is required for any criminal conviction, and I have no doubt he would hire a competent lawyer who will point that out..

But I agree that he will not escape liability in a wrongful death suit. $$$. He almost certainly has liability insurance, and i expect the insurance company will do a financial settlement with the family. I doubt whether he will be able to get another liability policy after this, though it's not the first fatality in the history of film.

Negligence can be criminal in certain situations. If someone drives while under the influence, gets in wreck & kills someone, he will be prosecuted with a crime even though he had no "intent" to kill. Not sure how the laws read exactly in New Mexico, but all states have some type of "criminally negligent" statutes on the books. It's just a matter of the prosecutor having the evidence & the will to charge him & the other idiots involved. In this case all those involved are white & rich, so there is a high probability that no one will be charged or convicted of anything unless they run out of money first.

 

[Mangonboat]

Five pages into this thread, some observations: 1) The so-called absolute prohibition against political posts on general forum thread has not impeded the unproductive expression of politically-based vitriol; 2) Movies featuring lots of shooting have been popular for over 90 years yet some folks have not deduced how those shots of an actor firing toward the camera are created and obtained. 3) Precisely because movies and television productions which involve guns and shooting have been popular for so long, one would think that every one of the folks in those industries would know and scrupulously observe safety rulesfor firearms and other weapons on set. When the industry is so adamant in its defense of productions involving depictions of shooting and other violence, asserting that they are fantasies and do not glorify or promote violence, they need to be 'perfect' in their gun safety record.

I noted that the 2010 TC Hawken owners manual cautions to NEVER fire a weapon that was loaded by somebody else. That sounds like a good rule for everyone except military artillery firing officers ( even fighter pilots personally inspect the loading of the guns and missiles on their aircraft before climbing into the cockpit).

 

[rshveyda]

Sorry to keep beating this dead horse of a thread, but I can't stop thinking about negligent discharges. I've had exactly one in my lifetime that happened when I was about 15. I was shooting a large caliber SAA unmentionable at an unsupervised outdoor range, was sighted on target, cocked and just about to squeeze the trigger when I realize I didn't have my hearing protection in. I kept the gun pointed down range, reached up with my off hand and plugged my ears, when I had a sympathetic squeeze and a negligent discharge. Thank God it went safely down range and nobody was hurt.

Oh the SHAME! I could feel all four of Col. Cooper's fine rules of firearms safety slapping me upside my dumb head. Because of my relaxed grip the big bore revolver even came back and lightly tapped me with the top strap in the forehead. I'll never forget that moment so long as I live, and told myself right then and there to learn from my careless mistake because next time I might pay for it with my life or the life of another.

Fast forward 35 years and my young son-in-law returns from the range with his carry semi-auto unmentionable. He askes if he can clean it and I lend him tools for doing so. Several minutes later he has a negligent discharge into the floor of my den. He was mortified and red-faced apologetic when I confronted him, but after making sure everyone was okay (he had almost shot my cat!) we had a long discussion.

I told him the story of my own ND and that he had been blessed that his carelessness hadn't hurt anyone. And now he had a very vivid lesson to remind him that guns are dangerous. If they weren't we probably wouldn't carry them. But, if he used the shock of this close call to remind him that we must be ever vigilant when handling firearms, that if he dedicated himself to never letting it happen again, that I would forgive him for the hole in the floor. Don't forget about this, I told him. Keep it with you and let it motivate you to be responsible and safe, so you never kill that which you don't intend to.

That hole in the floor is still there hiding under the carpet as a reminder.

 

[shorthair]

Supposedly earlier in the day some of the crew had taken a few of these guns and went out plinking at beer cans.

 

[BadDaditood]

Years ago IATSE developed a Tier system (1 being the lowest pay rates) to help film school grads learn their craft without costing million$.
How an a$$hat like Baldwin qualifies for the lowest of low budget productions is beyond me.
This production was pure chaos, lax in safety and many other industry standards union crews live and work by.
These producers were abusing every worker on set. I’m surprised they even served lunch.
The camera crew walked out that morning citing a litany of grievances among them two mishaps with guns.
somebody went plinking in the desert during lunch and left a live round in one of 3 Colts in the Armorers’ cart. A$$hat Baldwin most likely said somebody get me a gun! Lickspittle AD Halls grabs one from the cart, obviously not checking it (Armorer never checked it either) yet he announces “cold gun”!
Now the hard part… They were rehearsing a scene that called for Baldwin to crossdraw and fire toward the camera. DP Hutchins is next to the camera with the Director right behind her. This is rehearsal, those two would not be standing there when cameras roll.
No plexiglas to protect the expensive lens, no 15 degree rule on pointing guns.
Baldwin says the gun just went off.
I know how hard it is to hit what I’m aiming a pistol at so you can’t tell me he didn’t take careful aim at her, of course he didn’t know it was loaded. No one did because NO ONE checked.
So Baldwins’ a &@$@, she’s dead, Directors’ wounded. The sheriff WILL find out who was plinking for lunch and he’ll string up the Armorer and the AD Halls.
Baldwin the actor will get off scot free, but hopefully Baldwin the Producer will get raked over the coals and crucified by public opinion.
Producer Baldwin is the one responsible for her death by refusing to honor the union crews’ contract and hiring so many unqualified people and non union locals. That show was chaotic hell for everyone who needed a job that bad.
Hollywood usually kills it’s workers a lot slower than that… maybe she’s the lucky one

 

[toot]

Baldwin will serve no jail time and there will be no felony conviction.

and he will still dump on TRUMP! it pays to be a movie star! they are the ones that are above the law

 

[toot]

, I’m nicer then you, I’d pee in his face any old day

oh, he might rely enjoy that?

 

[galoot]

Remember when Dick Cheney shot a guy in the face with a shotgun? He never apologized or faced any legal problems and got off scott free. "D"s aren't the only one's who've gotten out of potentially serious trouble. Money and connections.....

 

[Frederickdav]

One thing we are all forgetting........it's the GUNS fault!!!