Are the Military Heritage brown besses any good?

[Shot deer]

If you really want an Indian made musket Loyalist or Veteran Arms would be your best bet. I have had zero functional issues with muskets from both. I use them for reenacting. The main issue if you want to live fire them is wait until delivery before you buy a lot of shooting components because bore sizes can vary quite a bit.

Ok, I will do that

 

[FlinterNick]

I would go with a Dixie Gun works or Navy Arms Brown Bess by Miruko, they're always for sale on Gun Broker, I'm actually thinking about selling mine. Its a short land but had period correct markings and room for stamps, they also run about as much as an Indian made gun. They're also very reliable, best repro Brown Bess Lock ! and the barrel is high quality. You can also easily restock them with Dunlap stocks.

 

[FlinterNick]

Ok, I will do that

I agree, the Pedersoli Brown Bess isn't really a good representation of a Shortland Brown Bess. While its a very fine musket, its really just a Pedersoli Brown Bess in its own right. T/he

The 42 inch barrel was adopted as an official pattern until around 1770 and old stores of muskets were used before new ones were issued. So the 1756 was the official musket used at the onset of the revolution, through most of the conflict and wasn't ever retired at any given point. Shortland didn't come into plan until around the 1777, with a large mixture of 1769 and Contracted patterns from Liege and Colonial contracts and furthermore the Pedersoli lock is the 1756 lock with, Grice didn't make short lands, Grice is marked on many long land patterns.

The Middlesex Long Land has the period correct 46 inch barrel and some of the furniture is ok however the rest of the musket is not accurate, the lock is just not right, almost everything is wrong, the screw hole alignment, the cock, frizzen spring etc. The correct caliber is also .77 not .75. To be honest, I haven't seen too many people who were very satisfied with their purchases from Middlesex.

The most accurate Brown Bess's are by the Rifle Shoppe.

However... if you can find one, around 1976 Coach Harness with the help of Kit Ravensheer reproduced a 1756 long land that is almost dead on a drop dead accurate representation of a Brown Bess. By now they're older, you'll spend around 1500 at auction for one.

Miruko would also be my personal choice over any Indian made repro. You'll spend about the same and have a way higher quality musket. You seem them auction on Gunbroker and Armslist often.

 

[Shot deer]

I agree, the Pedersoli Brown Bess isn't really a good representation of a Shortland Brown Bess. While its a very fine musket, its really just a Pedersoli Brown Bess in its own right. T/he

The 42 inch barrel was adopted as an official pattern until around 1770 and old stores of muskets were used before new ones were issued. So the 1756 was the official musket used at the onset of the revolution, through most of the conflict and wasn't ever retired at any given point. Shortland didn't come into plan until around the 1777, with a large mixture of 1769 and Contracted patterns from Liege and Colonial contracts and furthermore the Pedersoli lock is the 1756 lock with, Grice didn't make short lands, Grice is marked on many long land patterns.

The Middlesex Long Land has the period correct 46 inch barrel and some of the furniture is ok however the rest of the musket is not accurate, the lock is just not right, almost everything is wrong, the screw hole alignment, the cock, frizzen spring etc. The correct caliber is also .77 not .75. To be honest, I haven't seen too many people who were very satisfied with their purchases from Middlesex.

The most accurate Brown Bess's are by the Rifle Shoppe.

However... if you can find one, around 1976 Coach Harness with the help of Kit Ravensheer reproduced a 1756 long land that is almost dead on a drop dead accurate representation of a Brown Bess. By now they're older, you'll spend around 1500 at auction for one.

Miruko would also be my personal choice over any Indian made repro. You'll spend about the same and have a way higher quality musket. You seem them auction on Gunbroker and Armslist often.

1500 would hurt the wallet! I going to look around for a Miruko

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

So a I've been thinking about getting a brown bess. I've looked at a couple websites for prices and the Military Heritage 1st model brown bess(with the end nose cap) is 549.00 USD.
Model number MTS 008B Long Land (1st model) Brown Bess
Musket. What do you guys think?

:
Deer,
My advice to you is the advice I didn't take myself : SAVE UP FOR A QUALITY PIECE
I would also not buy anything you can't handle and examine.
I own an India Gun and I'm married to it as I invested too much, too poorly and the only way to get closer to what I want is to invest more and try to do the work myself. Not the position you want to be in.
If you want something that is an actual shooter not only for reenactment but for target shooting or hunting and you want to be able to do that right away and not be concerned with reliability in components and/or function then save your money, find a quality piece that you can handle in person and make a sound investment.
I wish that I would have because with the quality you'll also get piece of mind.

The Sicilian

 

[FlinterNick]

1500 would hurt the wallet! I going to look around for a Miruko

My Miruko is an older bicentennial pattern with a Cherry Stock.

The middle thimble is a Pratts Thimble that's flared, long story when I purchased the musket the sling swivel was incorrectly tapped through the rod pipe lug, it caused the mortise to crack so I had to modify it with a larger thimble and the pipe lug fits into a slotted barrel lug to secure it.

 

[Shot deer]

My Miruko is an older bicentennial pattern with a Cherry Stock.

The middle thimble is a Pratts Thimble that's flared, long story when I purchased the musket the sling swivel was incorrectly tapped through the rod pipe lug, it caused the mortise to crack so I had to modify it with a larger thimble and the pipe lug fits into a slotted barrel lug to secure it.

View attachment 4034

View attachment 4035

View attachment 4036

Beautiful gun! That is some nice looking wood!

 

[Shot deer]

The Sicilian, thank you for the advice, much appreciated!

 

[FlinterNick]

1500 would hurt the wallet! I going to look around for a Miruko

Miruko guns are sold as Navy Arms or Dixie Gun Works reproductions, Lyman sold them for a short while too.

 

[Columbus]

Stay away from that india junk and buy American. I have had these indian guns through my shop and they are a mess. Save your money and get something American made that has some sort of quality.

American made muzzleloaders??? Unless you have the dollars for custom built where would you find any that are made in the USA?

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

The Sicilian, thank you for the advice, much appreciated!

I wish you a good experience in your black powder endeavors as the numbers in the hobby are waning so if I can help in any way I would as others have helped me.
I didn't listen to them all the time and in this case I literally PAID.
Best of luck in what ever choice you make!

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

American made muzzleloaders??? Unless you have the dollars for custom built where would you find any that are made in the USA?

Columbus,
There are the semi-custom places like TVM although I can't say for sure that all of the parts they use are US made.
You can buy kits from people like Kibler but either choice and your going to spend high dollars and if you don't have the skills to build a kit would be an expensive disaster waiting to happen

 

[Shot deer]

I wish you a good experience in your black powder endeavors as the numbers in the hobby are waning so if I can help in any way I would as others have helped me.
I didn't listen to them all the time and in this case I literally PAID.
Best of luck in what ever choice you make!

Thank you very much, I will take you up on it!

 

[Artificer]

My Miruko is an older bicentennial pattern with a Cherry Stock.

I have seen quite a few Miroku Bess's and that is probably the best one I ever saw.

Gus

 

[FlinterNick]

I have seen quite a few Miroku Bess's and that is probably the best one I ever saw.

Gus

Thanks Gus !

The stock is reworked, removed the tear drops around the lock and side plate. Restrained with LMF nut brown, sealed with linseed and locked it up with Tung oil.

I added the eschuchion screw drilled and counter sunk, I had to make the screw from a TOW blank tang screw. The trigger was banged to death to make it somewhat straight.

The miruko pins were flimsy so I used thicker heavier pins.

I had trouble staining the butt stock, just couldn’t get it dark enough, so I tried to let the linseed soak in and darken.

 

[Artificer]

So a I've been thinking about getting a brown bess. I've looked at a couple websites for prices and the Military Heritage 1st model brown bess(with the end nose cap) is 549.00 USD.
Model number MTS 008B Long Land (1st model) Brown Bess
Musket. What do you guys think?

May I ask what is your intention as the main purpose for this Musket?

If you primarily want a Bess to re-enact with, then I would suggest a Loyalist Arms Bess as a "starting gun."

If you primarily want the Bess to shoot live rounds, then a Miroku or Pedersoli is a better choice.

Also, if you are thinking of joining a reenactment group, it would be best to ask them what model and maker of Bess is acceptable for the unit.

I mostly shot live rounds with my old Pedersoil Brown Bess Carbine back in the mid to late 70's and was highly pleased with it. When I came back to doing 18th century reenacting in the late 1990's/early 2,000's, I finally sold it and bought a full length Pedersoli.

Gus

 

[FlinterNick]

American made muzzleloaders??? Unless you have the dollars for custom built where would you find any that are made in the USA?

The Rifle Shoppe, Track of the Wolf, RE Davis, Dunlap, Sittingfox muzzleloads, TVM are just a few I know of who make American Made Musketsa and Rifles.

I only buy from TRS and TOW currently. Unless I see a good deal on a kit or a used Pedersoli or older Dixie or Navy Arms Gun, I won’t buy it. The factory guns brand new still require work.

 

[FlinterNick]

May I ask what is your intention as the main purpose for this Musket?

If you primarily want a Bess to re-enact with, then I would suggest a Loyalist Arms Bess as a "starting gun."

If you primarily want the Bess to shoot live rounds, then a Miroku or Pedersoli is a better choice.

Also, if you are thinking of joining a reenactment group, it would be best to ask them what model and maker of Bess is acceptable for the unit.

I most shot live rounds with my old Pedersoil Brown Bess Carbine back in the mid to late 70's and was highly pleased with it. When I came back to doing 18th century reenacting in the late 1990's/early 2,000's, I finally sold it and bought a full length Pedersoli.

Gus

I agree with Gus, your better shooting muskets are by Miruko or Pedersoli. You could shoot those guns for the next 100 years(hyperbole) the barrels are made very well and the miruko locks hold up well, I’ve never had to service my Miruko Bess or Charleville lock since I’ve purchased it. Other than replacing a screw I stripped.

The Indian muskets should be checked closely before shooting live rounds. I know Ed Rayl reworks the Indian Made Baker Rifle barrels, much to his advice in that the Indian guns are just not worth it.

 

[Shot deer]

I'm looking for a all around bess, you know like for reeacting, shooting all in general. Doesn't have to be "dead on", those are few and far between in my experience. So would you say loyalist arms, miruko, or pedersoli?

 

[FlinterNick]

I'm looking for a all around bess, you know like for reeacting, shooting all in general. Doesn't have to be "dead on", those are few and far between in my experience. So would you say loyalist arms, miruko, or pedersoli?

I’d go with a Miruko (navy arms, Dixie Gun works). It’s a good reinactors gun and also doubles as a fine shooter with shot and a patched round ball. You’ll pay 600-800 for one on Gunbroker, Lodgewood MFG just sold one for around $700. And the parts are serviceable even though out of production. There are several gunsmiths that reproduce the parts and repair them pretty well. Jim Casco and Paul Ackerman are two I know of.