Baker Rifle

[deanscamaro]

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with one of these. I was reading a fiction book titled "The Gates of the Alamo" and a Mexican commander told his troops that they should all feel proud that they had Baker rifles to use. That piqued my interest, so I researched it and got taken to Wikipedia (see first web site below). At the bottom of one of the pages (there were a number of pages on it) on the Baker rifle, was the second web page, a place to buy a reproduction of one (see the second website). Has anyone got or had one of these, or experience with one, because they seem to have lasted a number of years as a popular British gun of choice. I just hadn't heard of them (although that isn't surprising, being a newbie). :shake: I'm already looking forward to the day I am ready to buy a flinter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_rifle http://www.militaryheritage.com/baker.htm

 

[rabjr]

Theres been a few threads in the past on Bakers and Squire Robin was posting about shooting an original not long ago but he's been quiet lately. :hmm:

 

[davy]

The Baker was issued only to elite Mex troops and some were used by marksmen to harry Texian defenders in the Tex revolution. Frankly I do not think personally that many saw service there though. I have handled a couple of the replica Bakers at the Alamo Battle re-enactments that friends in the Mex group have .. surprizingly most of the replicas are for the most part smooth bores as bought ... versus the real deal was rifled. You can buy rifled barrels for them from other vendors and mount them but it extry cost of about $200. :hmm:

Davy

 

[mmahlock]

I shoot a reproduction Baker Rifle on a regular basis. Although it is not a completely accurate reproduction, the rifling is 1:66 vs 1:120 of the originals. I got it from Jess at TRS in Jones, OK and would recommend it to anyone wanting something very different to shoot.

The second site you listed sells smooth bore reproductions made in India. I've seen a couple and they leave a lot to be desired starting with the barrel, the lock, and the stock which is generally Teak or Rose wood rather then Walnut.

Ed Rayle makes barrels for Jess and will fit Indian Bakers with a good rifled barrel for a reasonable cost. I'm considering having him make me a 1:120 twist barrel.

It is a military rifle and not a target rifle. It has no set trigger and the stock is designed to be one size fits all. The trigger has a hard pull compared to most guns on the market but can be lighten up with a little work and lock tuning. Even with all the drawbacks I can hold my own with some serious paper shooter.

If you get one you'll find two things out, (1) the first time you light it off on a new range it will most likely go silent and everyone will want to know what the tar you're shooting. (2) at long range you'll go through a lot of powder real quick. (I use 110gr of fffg beyond 75 yds and we regularly shoot at 100 yds around here)

One other thing, you'll have to start casting your own balls if you get one. .610 balls are way too costly to buy of the shelf. (But that's half the fun) :wink:

OBTW, the Baker Rifle has the distinction of being the longest serving rifle ever used by the British Army just over 40 years of general use.

 

[thewho66]

I have wanted one for years, the militaty heritage is a smooth bore made in India. As one of the other posters said you can get a rifled barrrel. What got my interest was the Sharpe Movies made in England starring Sean Bean. Now you can order from the Rifle shop and get all of the parts to make one, but its an advance project I would have some one like Mike brooks put it all together.

John

 

[gundog99]

I use to own a non military London proof baker carbine, it was halve stocked with an 18 inch detachable damasks barrel, a roller fizzern flint lock, and a saddle ring. It was one of a number contemporary converted, as I think it had 2 engraved on the trigger guard (Baker type). I shot it with a .615 ball and a linen beeswax patch; a rubber mallet had to be used to seat it on the rifling. Sadly it was very inaccurate and kicked like a mule.

 

[cpinkhaminsc]

If you want to buy a reproduction, go straight to TRS. It will cost you, and you'll have to wait quite a while, but it will be worth it.
I made the big mistake of buying an Indian made one from the place in Canada. A total piece of junk. Fortunately (or UN) it was poorly packed and the stock was broken clean in two at the wrist by someone in the Postal pipeline, but it was insured, so I got my $$$ back from the USPS. The stock is teak, the brass parts are oversized and poorly finished, the lock is barely functional, and the barrel not one I'll risk my safety shooting. The ramrod wouldn't even fit into the barrel. On the other hand the bayonet I got with it was acceptable, but nothing special.
Good luck to you!
Charles

 

[TFoley]

Over here, Peter Dyson has got a real one for sale, if that's what you want.

Quote - BAKER RIFLE(Reference #D2808)
An original Flintlock BAKER RIFLE by Wheeler. Round original browned barrel .625" cal. 7 groove rifling - the rifling has been relieved at the muzzle to aid speedy loading. The barrel has Birmingham proof marks and RW between the proof marks. On the underside of the barrel is stamped with the name CLIVE. This rifle is complete with its original ramrod and is in fine condition.

Price: £6,500.00' - End Quote

That's only around $11,200 to you guys. An easy buy for most of you I guess, too, huh?

I'd buy it, but I have two cars to fill up tomorrow.... :hmm:

tac

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I thought the whole advantage of the Baker rifle was that you dropped the ball in the breech hole that opened up by unscrewing the trigger guard. Why would you need to have the rifling "relieved at the muzzle to aid speedy loading"? That doesn't make a lot of sense.

Twisted_1in66

 

[MikeChapin]

I thought the whole advantage of the Baker rifle was that you dropped the ball in the breech hole that opened up by unscrewing the trigger guard. Why would you need to have the rifling "relieved at the muzzle to aid speedy loading"? That doesn't make a lot of sense.

Twisted_1in66

You're thinking of a Ferguson(sp?) rifle. The Baker was a conventional muzzleloader.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Yup, You're right. I was thinking of the Ferguson. :redface: :redface:

thanks,
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[cpinkhaminsc]

tac, I feel your pain. When we left Spain in 2004 gas was around 5 euros a US gallon. We could fill up on base for $1.54, so I had a heck of a time zooming around in my '89 325i... Made up for the ridiculous firearms rules that kept my .62 smooth rifle locked up for 4 years because it was a "custom" gun. Had no problem with my India Pattern musket though, and got to a really silly and outrageously fun Nappy reenactment at a town called La Albuera. Still hoping to get stationed in Italy next summer, maybe the dollar will go back up and we can come back with some nice shotguns.
Cheers,
Charles

 

[Parzifal]

Yes the baker rifle....

I have wanted one for some years now, I wouldent want a smoothbored one.

The rifle shoppe has a nice looking kit with finished locks around 1000$$,
though I am a bit worried that the screws holes that hold the lock to the stock are not bored??

That said I am shure you could pay a little extra and have them do this for you.

One day I will have one.

 

[faw3]

Sad to say someone moved his report on shooting that org Baker (12000) USA worth, so he has moved on , a loss to us all. Last E I got with pic sometime back he was hitting the paper at last,lamb skin patch and that strange goo they glue the patchs on with that the rats in Tower of London have eaten for years i guess. Fred :hatsoff: ( oh ya ..you can shoot a smaller ball out of the Baker, it was made as rifle and smooth bore when needed-sub size ball that would just drop in. HEY I JUST WENT TO PMs AND CKD HIS TO ME AND HIS BLOG IS STILL UP.. http://www.robinhewitt.net/blog/

 

[mmahlock]

...( oh ya ..you can shoot a smaller ball out of the Baker, it was made as rifle and smooth bore when needed-sub size ball that would just drop in. ...

According to Bailey, unless I just missed the reference, the Baker Rifles were never made as smooth bores. If you have additional information I'm always looking for more data.

One can never have too much data.

:hatsoff:

 

[Elnathan]

I would be willing to bet that the smooth bore is a response to the fairly draconian regulations on rifles in the British Isles - shotguns are comparatively easy to own, I believe.

 

[Dphar]

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with one of these. I was reading a fiction book titled "The Gates of the Alamo" and a Mexican commander told his troops that they should all feel proud that they had Baker rifles to use. That piqued my interest, so I researched it and got taken to Wikipedia (see first web site below). At the bottom of one of the pages (there were a number of pages on it) on the Baker rifle, was the second web page, a place to buy a reproduction of one (see the second website). Has anyone got or had one of these, or experience with one, because they seem to have lasted a number of years as a popular British gun of choice. I just hadn't heard of them (although that isn't surprising, being a newbie). :shake: I'm already looking forward to the day I am ready to buy a flinter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_rifle http://www.militaryheritage.com/baker.htm[/quote]

If you want a Baker you should buy DeWitt Bailey's book on British Flintlock Military Rifles so you can see what its really supposed to be. In fact anyone interested in Colonial American rifles should read the first chapter on Indian rifles. Its very educational.
The rifle pictured on the website is a wall hanger in my opinion.
See The Rifle Shoppe'sweb site. I think they have complete parts sets to make a sound and accurate Baker copy.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

I would be willing to bet that the smooth bore is a response to the fairly draconian regulations on rifles in the British Isles - shotguns are comparatively easy to own, I believe.

Its because its made in India as a PROP for actors and re-enactors. Its not a shooters gun. I sure as heck would not waste 200 bucks plus for a good barrel for the the thing.

NOTE!!!!!!
From the web site:

"Non-Firing State

We sell historically accurate muskets as a non-firing state. A certified gunsmith may alter this musket to a firing state by drilling the vent hole and certify it as being safe (by, for example, proofing the barrel). We are not legally responsible for any alteration made to this item. "

The people that make these things will not even make them so they will fire. This should be a CLUE.
I doubt it can be proved safe by "proofing" either.
Once the shooter has it modified to actually fire the maker and seller is off the hook.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Sad to say someone moved his report on shooting that org Baker (12000) USA worth, so he has moved on , a loss to us all. Last E I got with pic sometime back he was hitting the paper at last,lamb skin patch and that strange goo they glue the patchs on with that the rats in Tower of London have eaten for years i guess. Fred :hatsoff: ( oh ya ..you can shoot a smaller ball out of the Baker, it was made as rifle and smooth bore when needed-sub size ball that would just drop in. HEY I JUST WENT TO PMs AND CKD HIS TO ME AND HIS BLOG IS STILL UP.. http://www.robinhewitt.net/blog/[/quote]


You need to read DeWitt Bailey's book. It explains the Baker is a rifle.
The British Army had little use for a 20 bore smoothbore with rifle sights.

Dan

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

Earlier Baker rifles were made to shoot musket ammo but the recoil was too stiff so they went to the smaller ball. They used two balls with the Baker rifle. For long range shooting they used the .595 ball sewn in a cloth patch lubed with tallow. This ball was called the forced ball and was initially seated in the bore with a small hardwood mallet. Baker later ordered the mallets removed but some British Riflemen did not give them up. The Mexican Riflemen were still using loading mallets into the 1830s.
The second ball was the .615 Carbine ball. This ball was wrapped in a paper cartridge just like
a musket cartridge. This cartridge was used for close up and quick action.
The .615 cartridge was carried in a cartridge box, just like the muskets. The .595 Forced Ball were carried in a belt pouch. When you consider the Baker with it's wide range of firepower and then add the very nasty bayonet, it was quite a package. Did a number on the French. :bow: