Ball starters

[Pittsburghunter]

My guess and it is a guess is that we modern shooters go with a tight load because we have the time to worry about it and thumb loaded rounds of the past did not give the ultimate in terminal ballistics we all crave now.

As I recall from my readings and films I watched during the Revolution paper wrapped cartridges with loose fitting balls was the norm and the little fingers of our forfathers could stuff them down the bore with ease and this is the stuff history records.

They do not give us great detail into the loading of personal weapons but the crackshots in the 1800's do. I have read that even leather was used to patch balls and I can't imagine using a wooden ramrod to start such a load.

As an interesting sidebar as stated on another thread I started this sport by myself with no tech support no websites to ask questions on and my solution to starting rounds was a small piece of hardwood that fit my palm that I used to force the projectile below the muzzle. I found the ramrod worked fine after this no stress and I never broke a rod.

I too as stated grab the rod low starting so I do not stress the rod by bending it.

This is interesting I bet there are a thousand different ways people started projectiles before we had owners manuals.

 

[Legionair]

Course.... those short starters could have been invented by the rifle companies....

One more "accouterment" for you to load up with... at a tidy profit to them. :haha:

Thoughts....

Legion

 

[mmahlock]

I wonder...how many of the old original barrels which have had their muzzles worn away due to 230 years of improper cleaning with a unguided, dirty shafted ramrod have suddenly become "coned"?

I'm not saying these old "worn out" muzzles were not "coned" but I don't recall reading about "intentionally coned" muzzles in anything which was written before 1950.

In answer to your first question, wear from a rammer or other tool in the muzzle would most likey be limited to a specific spot or area not uniformly around the muzzle. The localized wear would have produced a change in point of impact. Uniform coning or relieving of the lands in the muzzle would in effect shorten the barrel by the length of the coning without affecting the accuracy of the rifle.

As for historical documentation, Bailey in his book British Military Flintlock Rifles describes one as having the rifling in the muzzle relieved about an inch and a half from the muzzle i.e. coned.

 

[riarcher]

:thumbsup:
And I can't imagine that someone didn't try a loading block for a hasty shot,,, and figure a short rammer to be helpfull.
"Mother necessity,, father invention" etc.
Pure speculation on my part. I really wasn't there. (contradictory to what the kids think)

 

[Landngroove]

Yes, I use a short starter. I would not go hunting without one. Over the years, the short starter has come to be part of my loading routine. Target shooting, or hunting, it works for me. This is of course, IMHO. :thumbsup:

 

[Hoyt]

I made a nice little short starter out of a deer antler..but I thumb start all my loads. Got a new thickness of patch material to try that may require the starter. I always carry it in my pouch just in case anyway.

 

[Zonie]

This deer antler short starter came with a possibles bag I bought.
It fits into a beaded pouch on the bags strap.

It may not be PC but I think it's pretty neat! :grin:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

"...and one fellow recently posted in a topic "ball starters"...should be left at home..."

:rotf:...Don't you just love it !

FWIW, every load I make is done with a short starter...don't care if they were "PC" or were not "PC"...or if they once were and now are not...or never were then became accepted...or if anyone else approved of it in the past, or approves of it now or in the future...I approve of it for me and that's all that counts.

I can't / don't want to / won't thumb start 50 shots every Saturday morning, so I use a short starter for all my practice...and I hunt like I practice..........ergo...............

:thumbsup:

No doubt, I would be lost without my short starter and cutting my patch at the barrel
Makes for better accurcy IMO

 

[Swampman]

That's fine, I just don't see what purpose they serve if your ball and patch are set up correctly. Even when using a loading block they serve no purpose.

 

[Halftail]

That's fine, I just don't see what purpose they serve if your ball and patch are set up correctly. Even when using a loading block they serve no purpose.

So basically what yer saying is "If you use a short starter you don't know diddly squat"? :rotf:

 

[riarcher]

Hey,, I knew Diddly Squat too!
He's the guy that used to take the powder from under my balls!
Got guite a rashing over that. :v

 

[Swampman]

There's a lot of enjoyment, in the full experience that so many are missing. It only takes a little bit of effort to get there. The traditional method of using a smaller ball, and a thicker patch reduces fatigue and greatly improves the enjoyment factor. Excellent accuracy, and no wiping between shots. When I was a kid, I'd drive that ball down with a mallet like a good target shooter. I met a few folks that knew what they were doing, and they shared the knowledge that I'm sharing with you.

 

[Halftail]

There's a lot of enjoyment, in the full experience that so many are missing. It only takes a little bit of effort to get there. The traditional method of using a smaller ball, and a thicker patch reduces fatigue and greatly improves the enjoyment factor. Excellent accuracy, and no wiping between shots. When I was a kid, I'd drive that ball down with a mallet like a good target shooter. I met a few folks that knew what they were doing, and they shared the knowledge that I'm sharing with you.

Swampman,
Your missing something.There is alot of enjoymant in my Experience of Shooting the way I shoot.I think I could poke patched balls down bore without getting fatiqued for days on end.I appreciate your effort in try to show me your ways but I got it covered.
Thanks anyway. :winking:

 

[Swampman]

Unfortunately many feel the same way, and they pass their methods on to novices who after a few months of frustation sell their muzzleloaders and move on to something else.

This hobby's greatest attraction is it's simplicity. Why make it so hard and complicated?

 

I doubt seriously that coning in old rifles is a result of rod wear. Especially concentric uniform rodwear, that has to be done by purposeful coning at manufacture. When using a muzzleloading rifle and using the components and methods that were used commonly to load, shoot, and clean these old rifles, it will all work as smooth as burning diesel in a diesel engine. Too many people nowadays are trying to re-invent the wheel. Short starters in a TC is alright with me. They are a modern firearm anyway. It's always fun to watch these guys carry their big box of stuff to the gun range. A little comedy is good. If your shooting a copy of an original style rifle with coning in the muzzle and using the tools and methods that were used by the old timers there should be plenty of fun and satisfaction in the use of a traditional firearm. I would never recommend gas in your diesel engine. It may run for awhile but not for long.
Fire away and fall back,
Don

 

[jtmattison]

Unfortunately many feel the same way, and they pass their methods on to novices who after a few months of frustation sell their muzzleloaders and move on to something else.

This hobby's greatest attraction is it's simplicity. Why make it so hard and complicated?

I doubt anybody sold their muzzleloader because they had to use a short starter :shake:

Your small roundball, thick patch concept may work for you but it won't work for everyone.

We have to realize there are no rules to fun/successful muzzleloading.

People do things differently. No one can say their way is right or wrong.

Also, it is not necessary to be PC in everything we do to have fun.

My two cents.

HD

 

[roundball]

".....who after a few months of frustation sell their muzzleloaders and move on to something else....."

I doubt anybody sold their muzzleloader because they had to use a short starter :shake:

:hatsoff:

 

[Halftail]

Unfortunately many feel the same way, and they pass their methods on to novices who after a few months of frustation sell their muzzleloaders and move on to something else.

This hobby's greatest attraction is it's simplicity. Why make it so hard and complicated?

What part of shoving a Patched Round Ball onto a bunch of Black Powder do you find complicated and Frustraiting?? :rotf:

 

[Swampman]

Have you read the letter to the editor in the latest issue of Muzzleloader. Using the correct ball size means not needing a short starter, not breaking ramrods, not wiping between shots, and not being tired from loading (or attempting to load.) Accuracy doesn't suffer, and the shooter has fun.

 

[leslie]

The part where I forget the powder.