Ballistol picking up brown in bore?

[Boston123]

So, I shot my trade-gun today.

I like to clean right after shooting at the range, to pick up most of the stuff, then give do a more thorough job when I get home.

Both times, I filled the barrel with water (cold at the range, then warm at home), let it sit for a few minutes, then poured the water out, swabbed the barrel with more wet patches until they came out clean, then ran dry patches until they came out dry.

Just now, as I finished up the cleaning, I applied some Ballistol to a patch and ran it down the bore. Said patch came out with a brown ring like it was picking up rust, even though the water I poured out of the barrel was clean and clear and the patches I swabbed were clean.

Is this just what Ballistol does? Or should I run a brush down the bore?

EDIT: Just ran a big ol' chunk of unspun hemp rope, my stand-in for tow, with some more ballistol applied, down the bore, pulled it out by a piece of string, and repeated this a few times. The bore is much shiner now when viewed by eye with a flashlight, so I guess that is what I am doing from now on...

 

[coloradoclyde]

Is this just what Ballistol does?

It's what letting water soak in a barrel does.

By letting water soak in the barrel you convert salts to acids. Soaking your barrel in acids attacks the metal causing rust.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

It's what letting water soak in a barrel does.

By letting water soak in the barrel you convert salts to acids. Soaking your barrel in acids attacks the metal causing rust.

Clyde may have it. I do think it is a question of time, acids, moisture & age of the barrel

You didn't give us an idea of how long the inside of your barrel was "wet" and dirty. I too think wet and dirty are things you want to avoid prolonging. I don't see the value of the cold water at the range. If you are cleaning it at the range . . . . then why clean it again? If you don't think you cleaned it at the range. . .why get it wet and still dirty for the drive home? Maybe rethink doing both.

Also is it a new barrel? Shiny New steal rusts really fast, while a barrel with some age is slower to rust (It will still rust!!!)
You might try warm water & wet patches until clean, then a dry patch or two, then an alcohol patch, dry patch and ballistol in quick order.

Time is a funny thing, I'm not saying "Rush through it" but when I'm cleaning, I do feel a sense of urgency to get from the point of wet & dirty to the point of dry and lubed. I would never say stop and drink a cup of coffee, or go feed the chickens. . . so look at the time you are spending and see if you can get from wet & dirty to the point of dry and lubed in a little less time and maybe that beginning rust won't get it's chance.

I do think, if your gun is new, you will find as the barrel ages it will be less quick to begin rusting . . . .maybe 20 or 30 days at the range from now

 

[Boston123]

You didn't give us an idea of how long the inside of your barrel was "wet" and dirty.

Literally minutes. Once the barrel is cool enough to hold, I clean it out

I don't see the value of the cold water at the range. If you are cleaning it at the range . . . . then why clean it again? If you don't think you cleaned it at the range. . .why get it wet and still dirty for the drive home? Maybe rethink doing both.

Hmm.... I was operating under the assumption that if I waited until I got home until I cleaned it, a 30 minute drive or so in fairly-humid conditions, no-good very-bad things would be happening with the residue left in the barrel. I try to get as much residue out of the bore before I pack up for home, and I clean it again at home because I have a better workspace

Also is it a new barrel?

Brand new gun, just had it made for me in January. I have put maybe 20 shots through it.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/cleaning-new-brown-bess.127349/post-1758562
I have been following the above instructions, figuring that if it was good for a Brown Bess, it would work with other smoothbores....

 

[mooman76]

Did you oil the gun after the water? The reason I ask is because some oil turn brown after sitting in the barrel awhile. Ether pulling dirt out of the metal or just turning brown, I don't know but it happens sometimes. Not a big deal.

 

[Boston123]

Did you oil the gun after the water? The reason I ask is because some oil turn brown after sitting in the barrel awhile. Ether pulling dirt out of the metal or just turning brown, I don't know but it happens sometimes. Not a big deal.

I plugged the vent-hole, filled the barrel with water and let it sit for a few minutes. Poured the water out, ran some wet patches until they came clean, then dry patches until they came dry, then oiled patches.

As per this post: Cleaning new Brown Bess

The oiled patches (with Ballistol), came out streaked with brown, and when I looked down the barrel with a flashlight the bore was "dull". I applied Ballistol to a bunch of hemp rope fibers and ran that up and down the bore a few times, and looked again. Very shiny bore.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

My English Sporting Rifle has an unblued barrel and the 1st year I would keep the outside almost tacky with a mix of bear & elk fat, and run a greasy patch down the barrel after loading . . . .otherwise it would rust with the morning dew even though I live in a vary dry climate. Again after time and repeated cleaning inside and out. . . . it is much more forgiving.

I did read the "Cleaning new Brown Bess" Seems about right (I personally go with vary warm water and no dish soap) The point is timing

I'm going to be harsh, but I'm trying to help. . . . you state " As per this post: Cleaning new Brown Bess " no you didn't, he didn't tell you to fill it with cold water & Mostly clean the gun at the range then pack it up for a 1/2 hour drive and then start again and "filled the barrel with water and let it sit for a few minutes"

He did it in ONE go, all at once. . . he said "fill the barrel up with water and let it sit for a couple minutes." You said "filled the barrel with water and let it sit for a few minutes". . . If his "couple" was 1 1/2 to 2 minutes and your "few" was???? 4? 5? It seems like You are Augmenting the "As per" Thinking like many of us did when we started . . if soaking it once is good twice is better, if a couple minutes is good a few is better.

I can't know but I bet his whole cleaning is Well under 1/3 the hour you must have needed from when you first poured in the cold water into the barrel until the point where your lube was streaked with signs of rust, probably 1/4 the time. I'd guess you are using many more patches then he was thinking and that too adds time between wet and final oiling.

Do it all at once, do it well, don't doddle, . . . . if you are worried wait an hour after you lubed it and run another lightly lubed patch down the barrel if it's streaked with rust, try adding that alcohol patch somewhere in your drying patches. . . . .oh and I would store your gun muzzle down. . . .If you are anything like me when I started you are using way too much lube and a pool at the breach does no good

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I clean with room temp water, it sits in the barrel just long enough for me to pick up the rod and bore mop. Then plunge it a few times vigorously. Dump it out, flush with alcohol to displace the water, then dry patches. Once I think it's dry I fire up the hair dryer and send hot air down the barrel for a minute or two. Lube with Ballistol and good to go. Also pay attention to the little patent breech area as well.

I have a little brown stuff a couple of times but think it's crud that the Ballistol loosened up.

 

[Boston123]

if you are worried wait an hour after you lubed it and run another lightly lubed patch down the barrel if it's streaked with rust, try adding that alcohol patch somewhere in your drying patches.

If I run another lubed patch down the bore and get rust, should I run an alcohol-wetted patch down then and there, then dry the bore and lube it again?

oh and I would store your gun muzzle down.

The wall-hooks I have the gun on hold the gun at a slight muzzle-down angle. Entirely accidental on my part, I didn't account for the difference in thickness of the stock when mounting the brackets.

 

[Boston123]

I cleaned the gun again, using 70% rubbing alcohol to remove any oil, then dry patches, then running some hot air up the barrel to ensure things are dry. Finished off with RemOil just to see what would happen. All at a good clip, so things weren't sitting.

Will see what the bore looks like tomorrow. When i looked down it after this cleaning, it was bright and shiny like a mirror.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Fingers crossed!

 

[Mulebrain]

Ballistol may have it's uses, but not in my bores ever again.

 

[Boston123]

Ballistol may have it's uses, but not in my bores ever again.

I don't want to come across as rude, and it isn't my intention to call you out or anything, but this is one of my major issues so far with muzzleloading.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, and they almost-always conflict. There isn't really any one "good" way to do things.

Before my gun came in, I watched a lot of videos from Mike Bellevue and Blackpowder TV. Both use Ballistol to clean and oil their guns. I assumed that Ballistol was, therefore, fairly decent.

Now people are telling me that Ballistol is either garbage, alright, fairly good, all of these and none of them at the same time. There are also several dozen different techniques for cleaning, using a dizzying array of different products.

Trying to ask for advice for almost anything is like untangling the Gordian Knot, but there is no way to cut it

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Yup. I have owned my muzzleloader since November. Tried a bunch of different stuff. So far good luck with what I am doing. Took some info from various places including here. See what works for you and you can hand out free advice like the rest of us.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

I don't want to come across as rude, and it isn't my intention to call you out or anything, but this is one of my major issues so far with muzzleloading.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, and they almost-always conflict. There isn't really any one "good" way to do things.



Trying to ask for advice for almost anything is like untangling the Gordian Knot, but there is no way to cut it

Now that I have been here 10 or 11 years I get to say "we"

We are a cantankerous bunch of old guys that learned the knowledge you are seeking mostly in the school of "OH Cr*P!!! What have I done!" or at the feet of cranky old men back when we were starting out. You have to take the good with the bad. There is knowledge here that is just about lost to the rest of the world, but it comes with the price of dealing with cranky old men who are set in our ways. I will admit I am STILL intimidated by the "Builders" here. They almost speak their own language, they take slabs of hard wood and make them into stocks that are light, and strong, and wonderous in their beauty, then they stain it with a concoction that contains rusty nails, old steel wool and maybe eye of newt.

You yourself are already experimenting "Finished off with RemOil just to see what would happen." in 25 years when nearly all of us are dead and gone. . . . you will be a cranky old guy saying. . . " Ballistol ???? Don't use ballistol, it leaves rust streaks



I myself never use Remoil in BP guns. . . I work on the idea I want natural lube (in my case Bear Grease elk tallow and a little bees wax) because I know what they turn into when Black Powder fires past them, and I know hot water and patches will clean out what they turn into. You will try half a dozen things and settle on one you like. Remember also, some of us live where it's super humid, some, like me, where it's dry, some in the cold, some in the heat, the lube that works for me in Colorado might not keep the rust out in Florida

 

[Mulebrain]

I don't want to come across as rude, and it isn't my intention to call you out or anything, but this is one of my major issues so far with muzzleloading.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, and they almost-always conflict. There isn't really any one "good" way to do things.

Before my gun came in, I watched a lot of videos from Mike Bellevue and Blackpowder TV. Both use Ballistol to clean and oil their guns. I assumed that Ballistol was, therefore, fairly decent.

Now people are telling me that Ballistol is either garbage, alright, fairly good, all of these and none of them at the same time. There are also several dozen different techniques for cleaning, using a dizzying array of different products.

Trying to ask for advice for almost anything is like untangling the Gordian Knot, but there is no way to cut it

Stay calm, take a deep breath!

One thing I have found, is that folks are so willing to help others out in this sport. Many of us have tried nearly everything available and settle on what works.
I just didn't have luck with it, when used as a bore lube on multiple rifles. I am in a fairly humid climate, and WD40 works well for me in all my bores. Maybe in a drier climate ballistol might work, just not here in the swamp

Regards

 

[Ames]

Barricade works well up here in the frozen North.

 

[Grenadier1758]

One of the reasons that there are so many "best" methods for cleaning, shooting, load development and on and on is that for us, at our place and in our time, that method worked for us.

 

[Kestrel]

Swab with unicorn urine. Dry with pixie dust and lube with toad saliva. It's just that simple people.

I wish good luck with your new gun as you get to know each other.

 

[Siringo]

OP what powder were you using? What type of lube on your patches?

Cleaning with water is my usual routine. Fill bore, let it sit for a few minutes and dump. I’ll run wet patches and then fill the bore again. But this time instead of dumping, I force it out the touch hole or nipple hole. The rush of liquid cleans the breech. I then dry thoroughly.

When I run a patch with ballistol down the bore I’ll get the brownish residue. IT IS NOT RUST. It is burned on patch lube - especially wonder lube . No one ever mentions this. Especially patches with lube that contain beeswax. NOTHING cuts beeswax except a bore brush or in your case hemp rope. Just a thought.

When shooting cartridge guns with black powder, lead bullets and SPG, I used to do my final cleaning with a bore butter patch. Those would come out black or brown even though the bore was thoroughly cleaned and shiny. It could take several of those patches before they would come out clean. I suspected the bore butter was dissolving the microscopic layer of burned on bullet lube. My procedure was to coat the inside of the bore with bore butter as a rust preventative. I would come back in a couple of days and run another patch. Most times is was absolutely black. Again, was it dissolving baked on lube or even lead smear on the bore surface? That is my theory.

Anyway, after all this cleaning I now use Barricade as a rust preventative instead of ballistol. There is nothing wrong with ballistol, I just found that it migrated down the bore and plugged up my flash holes.