Bazinga!!!!!! Cracked.... What to do?

[Larry (Omaha)]

I knew I had a crack at the toe to the cheek side.


I did not know I had another that runs nearly to the wrist. Yikes!!!!!
I don’t know if this can be fixed and how?

46” swamped barrel hand inlet
Ketland lock inlet
It was coming along well
I was planning to carve beaver tails, moulding, chip carve and a flower pot.


Ohhh!

Worms running down the center of the blank are the culprit

Honestly my first thought is the trash can.
Bail now?
Tag & bag the parts for another day?
Move on to the Walnut gun?

Is it a waste of time to fix this?

54 Ball,
When you started had you known what you know now, would you have started? There is your answer, Biz bag that hunk of trash or use it for some firewood in the fireplace. Your intention from the get go was to have a nice rifle, you will end up with a patch job. I am with Phil, bail out!

Larry

 

[pilot]

BTW, what is CA? I've learned a lot on this site about materials but am drawing a blank on the term, CA. Thanks! (I probably should know!)

Super Glue. CA is shorthand for Cyanoacrylate.

 

[pilot]

Cyanoacrylate, (Super Glue!!) Comes fast or slow set, thick or thin. Gets into places you hadn't intended.
The fumes will really get to you.
The fumes are used to see/read fingerprints. by the good guys to catch the bad guys.
They make stuff to "unglue your fingers" from what you were trying to glue.
Thin CA will run into a crack and start out the other side before you can get your fingers out of the way.
They make accelerator to speed up slowing setting Super Glue that fits YOUR application.
There are ALL KINDS of Super Glue to stick ANYTHING together.
CA is the way to go.

I guess I wasn't fast enough.

 

[longcruise]

The thing about super glue is that once in place it wants to be under pressure (squeezed) in order to form it's best bond. The concept of starving the joint as applys to wood glue doesn't seem to be so with SG.

 

[ZUG]

I would not waste any more time on this wood. It looks like a POS from the get go and will end up a POS if you continue with it. Get yourself a good dense piece of wood.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

You won't be the first person I know who tossed out a stock gone wrong. At least it isn't because you bungled the job somehow.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

I'd look to putting a dowel from the bottom using wood glue , no problems after that, give it a shot before throwing it out!

 

[oldwood]

Would finish the job. Because , The stock is very far along , too far to waste the work done. Before glue application , rasp the stock to shape , then make your plan to epoxie , or Brown color Titebond the cracks. Brown Epoxie dye causes all cracks to disappear under stain coats. Brown Titebond does the same. The toe can be glued and clamped in place with a #6 or #8 wood screw and hidden with a brass toe plate attached with #6 wood screws. Easy , peasy. Best to fill worm holes , and tracks with epoxie , as it sands off at same level with the wood , where wood fillers always dimple. Again , to save having to reglue more cracks , finish shaping the surface of the wood. In my humble opinion , the crack doesn't extend into the wrist.. Finish the stock work , finish it , and If you aren't satisfied , sell it , and do another. There's always a market for a long rifle. Never saw one that wouldn't shoot.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I am cheap, I would have to fix it. I have had very good luck with superglue. I would rasp the wood down to about 1/4" above the finished profile. I would spread the crack slightly with a wood wedge tapped in just a fraction under the butt plate, fill the crack with as much superglue as it will hold, tap on in the stock while you add glue until air bubbles stop coming out. Clamp the crack, give the glue an hour to set and move on to the next crack and repeat. If you can't spread one of the cracks that doesn't run off, you can still soak the crack with super glue.

I have posted this before, 3" crack angling down from above the pin, the crack goes into the barrel channel, I fixed it like I suggested above I will never have a problem after the fix. Superglue soaks into wood, turns it into concrete and stabilizes it, put a drop on a pile of sawdust and you will find this out.

I posted a while back about superglue "case hardening" wood. One of the guys here told me I was full of it and no such thing could possibly happen. He even called a customer service line of a superglue company to prove me wrong. The rep told him the wood hardening was a property they had never felt the need to share with customers but it did exist.

I don't hardly make any bows now but superglue was my friend for the 28 years that I was a serious bowmaker, I have delt with a lot of cracked bow wood.

 

[rusticbob]

I agree with Eric, mostly because I love to save lost causes. I cannot count or remember all the number of T/C muzzleloaders I have saved from the junk pile. Most simply required a good cleaning, some needed cracks and splits repaired, some like one I have right now require a trip to Bob Hoyt in Penn. Just makes me feel good I quess, I don’t make much money at it, in fact if I were to add in my labor and research, I’m sure it costs me money.

 

[Jedidiah]

I fixed a crack the same way. you can see it in the pic running onto the lock mortise area. It has never been a problem.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

That stock looks to pretty to just trash it. You can fix it, Granted you will have to change what you were going to do on carving because the wood is not your friend. My advice would be walk away from it for awhile and think about what you could do rather than what you wanted to do. Had one years ago where the ramrod came through the belly during final shaping. Almost put it in the wood stove. It sat in the corner for awhile then saw an article in Muzzle Blast on belly plates which solved my problem. Got more complements on that rifle than any other I have built.

 

[SDSmlf]

Here are some photographs of a stock with what I guess you could call a crack at the toe. Not a muzzleloader, so don’t look if you have sensitive eyes. You have been warned.

The stock is from a Winchester M1917 Enfield that had seen a hard life. Initially the oil and crud filled crack didn’t appear all that bad, but after some cleaning the severity was obvious. The goal was to return the gun to a fully functional competition gun, not just make it look pretty. This was just one of many repairs that were made.

First photo doesn’t show much damage, but after stripping the finish and letting acetone weep into the crack to highlight it, condition became obvious.

I like using CA for a lot of things, but not for repairs like this after seeing a number failures. I prefer an epoxy that wicks into the smallest cracks without having to pry them open, plus epoxy will fill voids CA can’t fill. I then want to mechanically secure the repair with a dowel or better yet, threaded rod. For this repair I drilled holes under the butt plate straight through the cracks to allow epoxy to flow to the bottom of the crack, then used dowels to pump/force the epoxy into the cracks. The dowels are left in place and trimmed flush after clamping and letting the epoxy cure. After cure, I added threaded rods as ‘perpendicular’ as possible to the crack to mechanical strengthen the repair. Always try and hide the hole under a butt or toe plate for example, but not always possible. In this repair I was able to work with the butt plate and sling mount to hide things. I drill the holes slightly under the body diameter of the threaded rod so when inserted they form a shallow thread into the stock wood across the crack (forming a full thread in hardwood with a threaded rod can be challenging). I also score a flat on the side of the threaded rod so the epoxy has somewhere to go when you thread the rod into place.

This process is likely overkill for many repairs, but if you only want to fix it once….

 

[54ball]

Hey,
I want to thank everyone.
All input is appreciated.

I’m going to continue on. It’s going to be a family gun.
It’s a unique “Early Virginia/SW Virginia/ Overthrmountain Rifle and I want to see it complete.

 

[Relic shooter]

Cyanoacrylate, (Super Glue!!) Comes fast or slow set, thick or thin. Gets into places you hadn't intended.
The fumes will really get to you.
The fumes are used to see/read fingerprints. by the good guys to catch the bad guys.
They make stuff to "unglue your fingers" from what you were trying to glue.
Thin CA will run into a crack and start out the other side before you can get your fingers out of the way.
They make accelerator to speed up slowing setting Super Glue that fits YOUR application.
There are ALL KINDS of Super Glue to stick ANYTHING together.
CA is the way to go.

Nor *# Mikie is correct
I've been using various grades & thicknesses of Epoxies & super glues along with dowels & allthread stock for decades to professionally & permanently securely repair busted & cracked firearms & high end furniture.
About 45 years ago while I was building commercially & finalizing the finish on a large bore Jaeger build, the rifle was dropped & completely broke through the wrist area.
Needless to state I was devastated. Being it was a very clean break & the rifle was for me personally I decided to repair the break with two 5/16" dia. steel all thread rod inserted through the entire wrist area & epoxied in place.
I shot this rifle for 3-4 years before selling to a close friend who was well aware of the repair & he hunted with it for several more years without any issues before moving to another state.

Some of these super adhesives are thin as alcohol to seep into the deepest of cracks while others are thicker for surface repairs where you can also add stains to match small voids in the wood.
I can't verbally diagnose the proper fix your issue but there are some excellent videos with types of adhesives to use on Utube you can checkout to see what fits your needs. Most of these adhesives can be bought locally at woodworking stores or off Amazon.
Relic shooter

 

[reddogge]

This is a highly collectible 1942 military training rifle Winchester 75T that fell out of the safe one day and cracked the stock at the wrist, the worst place for it. I was sick thinking it had been used hard during WW2 and was in perfect condition until I let it get cracked. I repaired it with CA and it is not noticeable to the human eye but does show up under the light of the flash.

 

[sturmkatze]

Here are some photographs of a stock with what I guess you could call a crack at the toe. Not a muzzleloader, so don’t look if you have sensitive eyes. You have been warned.

The stock is from a Winchester M1917 Enfield that had seen a hard life. Initially the oil and crud filled crack didn’t appear all that bad, but after some cleaning the severity was obvious. The goal was to return the gun to a fully functional competition gun, not just make it look pretty. This was just one of many repairs that were made.

First photo doesn’t show much damage, but after stripping the finish and letting acetone weep into the crack to highlight it, condition became obvious.
View attachment 273535
View attachment 273536
View attachment 273538
View attachment 273540
I like using CA for a lot of things, but not for repairs like this after seeing a number failures. I prefer an epoxy that wicks into the smallest cracks without having to pry them open, plus epoxy will fill voids CA can’t fill. I then want to mechanically secure the repair with a dowel or better yet, threaded rod. For this repair I drilled holes under the butt plate straight through the cracks to allow epoxy to flow to the bottom of the crack, then used dowels to pump/force the epoxy into the cracks. The dowels are left in place and trimmed flush after clamping and letting the epoxy cure. After cure, I added threaded rods as ‘perpendicular’ as possible to the crack to mechanical strengthen the repair. Always try and hide the hole under a butt or toe plate for example, but not always possible. In this repair I was able to work with the butt plate and sling mount to hide things. I drill the holes slightly under the body diameter of the threaded rod so when inserted they form a shallow thread into the stock wood across the crack (forming a full thread in hardwood with a threaded rod can be challenging). I also score a flat on the side of the threaded rod so the epoxy has somewhere to go when you thread the rod into place.
View attachment 273557
View attachment 273558

View attachment 273560
View attachment 273561
View attachment 273562
This process is likely overkill for many repairs, but if you only want to fix it once….

Here are some photographs of a stock with what I guess you could call a crack at the toe. Not a muzzleloader, so don’t look if you have sensitive eyes. You have been warned.

The stock is from a Winchester M1917 Enfield that had seen a hard life. Initially the oil and crud filled crack didn’t appear all that bad, but after some cleaning the severity was obvious. The goal was to return the gun to a fully functional competition gun, not just make it look pretty. This was just one of many repairs that were made.

Nice job!! really nice

 

[sheriff john]

Did that buttplate screw cause one of the cracks? I've done that in various wood projects - mostly in old stuff where the original screw hole got wollered out one way or another. Too bigga screw will crack wood sometimes.

 

[SDSmlf]

Did that buttplate screw cause one of the cracks? I've done that in various wood projects - mostly in old stuff where the original screw hole got wollered out one way or another. Too bigga screw will crack wood sometimes.

The OP’s stock appears new and likely not cracked from a screw, they will have to comment.

The stock I posted photographs of was not cracked from the butt plate screw. Possibly stress from the sling swivel bracket.

 

[54ball]

This is my first attempt at CA repair.
So far so good.
This is not a through and through crack.
It’s just on the cheek side.

You can see the worm track.
The cheek side is still a lot in the square.
A lot of that crack will wind up on the shop floor.
So far the CA liquid Loctite has filled it well. Although visible it’s not detected with the fingernail.

I’ll be keeping an eye on it as I work the stock.
As you can see the crack runs this track. The track angles through the stock.

What I’m getting at, it’s more cosmetic than structural.